This petition has grown by 1000 per day. Let's keep it going folks. Thanks in advance for your support.

http://www.aliveandkickingcampaign.org/petition/

Background
Since 1967 there have been almost 7 million abortions, now 200,000 a year, with one in four pregnancies ending in abortion. The 1967 Abortion Act is open to amendment during the passage of the current HFE Bill, so there is now a genuine opportunity to reduce abortion numbers. We must be alert as well to the agenda of the pro-choice activists, abortion providers and some MPs who will push for further liberalisation of the law.

Petition
We believe that 200,000 abortions a year in Britain is far too many. We urge Parliament to SUPPORT amendments to the Abortion Act which will reduce substantially the 24 week upper time limit, end discriminatory abortion of the disabled up until birth, and provide balanced evidence-based information, independently of the abortion service, that gives women a properly informed choice, along with the offer of counseling.

We also urge parliament to REJECT proposed amendments seeking to liberalise the abortion law further such as ending the requirement for two doctors' signatures, allowing nurse-led medical abortion in GP surgeries with completion at home, barring pro-life doctors from seeing women with unplanned pregnancies and extending the Abortion Act to Northern Ireland.

Aye, and lets make miscarriages a serious offense - at least at the level of manslaughter.

Oh yes, and lets reiterate that *****ing is evil, immoral and fundamentally deviant. And also probably illegal if you are under 16...

I've little doubt that that is "too many" but the answer is not to seek to control people, it is to set them free. An atmosphere where contraceptive advice is not an embarrasing or taboo topic leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies. Religion doesn't.

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/02/26/pro-death/

... so I take it you won't be signing the petition. Why the hate?

oh please get up-to-date and quit the myths.

We've had sex education and contraceptives handed out freely for years and the abortion numbers have gone up, up and up not down, down and down.

No, they're going down down down. The secular world, wherever contraception is freely available, and I mean FREELY, without any dogma and shame hanging over the people, is leading the way.

You clearly don't bother reading links, perhaps you really are a bot. Here's a copy and paste job for you:

"A study published in the Lancet shows that between 1995 and 2003 the global rate of induced abortions fell from 35 per 1000 women each year to 29(7). This period coincides with the rise of the “globalized secular culture” the Pope laments(8). When you look at the broken-down figures, it becomes clear that (except in the countries of the former Soviet Union) the incidence of abortion is highest in conservative and religious societies. In the largely secular nations of western Europe, the average rate is 12 abortions per 1000 women. In the more religious southern European countries, the average rate is 18. In the United States, where church attendance is still higher, there are 23 abortions for every 1000 women(9), the highest level in the rich world. In Central and South America, where the Catholic Church holds greatest sway, the rates are 25 and 33 respectively. In the very conservative societies of East Africa, it’s 39(10). One abnormal outlier is the UK: our rate is 6 points higher than those of our western European neighbours(11)"

Would you want the church to hold sway if it meant a more then two-fold increase in the rate of abortions?

that's rubbish.
The petition deals with the UK, we've had contraception and sex education for years and years yet our abortion figures go up and up and up. If you are actually claiming that abortion numbers in the UK are going down and down and down then please supply the evidence to support this allegation.

some quick googling reveals you are actually a complete liar
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abo...glandwales.html

you're another one who comes on this forum and lies, why?

I'd sign a petition to ban all organized religions and the weak minded fuks that follow them.

Yep

let's have an opinion poll and see just how few people would agree with such an intolerant sentiment which goes contrary to our freedom of speech & religion

On a serious note here.

I would not sign the petition, simply because I do not feel it is my right to determine the future of life that is to me the right of the mother to decide on, with a footnote that it is they that have to live with the decision for the rest of their lives.

For the record, I am pro life, and would if circumstances came about that I was to make that decision myself with a female partner, I my decision would be to save the child, that said I would feel that having made my position clear it would be entirely up to the women to make the final decision.

I do not feel that any man should the right in law to decide whether or not to keep a baby.

Its got my vote!

astonishing remark
a father shouldn't have a say in whether his unborn kid gets destroyed? seems you've fallen for feminist nonsense

JESUS
******ING
CHRIST
IF
YOU
JUST
READ
THE
POSTS
WE
WRITE
YOU
MIGHT
LEARN
SOMETHING



What I said was The secular world, wherever contraception is freely available, and I mean FREELY, without any dogma and shame hanging over the people, is leading the way and it is true. Can you handle maths, do you know geography at all, do you know what your type is doing to prevent true freedom of the use and knowledge of contraception here in the UK and around the world, did you bother to read that part of the link which I had to post for you because you couldn't be bothered clicking to another site and reading it over there? Something tells me you can't handle the truth, is that why you chose christianity? The relevance of my post to the UK is that if all you lot just pissed off then the abortion rate would follow the rest of the secular world and fall. That is clearly not what you want to happen, you don't care about the abortion figures as long as they're high enough for you to claim you need more control over people and that you don't have enough power yet to solve the problem. The stats suggest you are excersising the power and influence to prolong it though.

Edit: testing the software to see if I can break the rude word filter. Managed it, after a fashion.

Scarlets, please don't forget that (for better for worse) we are a secular society and have the NHS - so all our abortions show up on official statistics.

In countries where Chistianity (or similar) still has a strangle-hold over society, most abortions are done illegally or behind closed doors. I think our relatively-high abortion figures are more a sign of our honesty (as opposed to our hypocrisy).

Now, I'm not a particular Bossanova, but I have noticed in my long and dissolute life that there is a direct correlation between the religiosity of a country and the amount of 'liaisons' I enjoy with the girls there. This is particularly true in highly-Christian countries. Furthermore, it's in Christian countries that I'm most often told that I don't need to wear a thingy on my wotsit (is it coitus interrptus?Is that what the Pope calls it?). At the end of the day, in the absence of any contrary scriptural guidance on the matter, I do wear one. Call me old-fashioned and rational, if you like, but I've got more respect for life than not to do so.

I dont think it is feminist, in fact to me it is the opposite.

I would not like another party having a say over my life, or my body and that works both ways.

If a man wants a child, then he should pull out the stops to have find a partner that in the first place trusts him to support her whilst she brings up a child, and in the second, is prepared to support that child in both good times and bad.

Far too many men have children from many mothers and take very little responsibility prior to conception, and after.

The only right thing to do is to ensure a women will always retain the final say.

done ....an being passed around

a woman's body is specifially designed to house the child until birth
the child is not part of the woman's body, he/she just lives there until birth
the woman cannot get pregnant without a man impregnating her, then the child lives inside the woman until birth
having seen friends of mine have babies recently, and the joy it brings all the parents, friends and family, there is something seriously wrong when a woman decides to destroy her own child in the womb. We must offer information, counselling, help and support to women who are consideing abortion. Many women get an abortion and never get over it all their lives. Many doctors are also seriously irresponsible advising women to have abortions because they think the baby is disabled, the testimony of women who ignored such "advice" and given birth to children who grew up to be able healthy adults is a revelation.
We must purge this evil from within our society. Condoms and sex education have failed to reduce abortion numbers, they've increased.

thanks and God bless

Oh christ there's 2 of em.

Have you accepted the data I posted earlier yet scarlets, or do you just ignore facts and tell people they're liars? The christian thing to do would be to edit your first post so members like Nicolaj don't get misdirected to this harmful endeavour and then join a campaign for more freedom of contraception. It won't make people have more evil sex, it will just make them less pregnant.

will you admit you lied when you said abortion was going down, down and down, when the official stats show the opposite? and during this time we've had more sex education and contraception but it HASN'T WORKED. Why are you blind to the facts?

OFFICIAL STATS?

Yes lets! Although there is a severe shortage of intellect in this world so those in favor of abolishing religion would be the minority.
IDIOTS - RELIGION needs YOU!



Unless she's the Virgin Mary, right?


Yeah, God bless. The imaginary entity in the sky will guide you.

And people think I'm a crank!

Well in part I agree, however would disagree that Doctors advise a baby is to be disabled when in fact its healthy. If that were to be the case I am sure we would see many women suing their doctor en mass.

The whole problem is that we have allowed our society to take the focus away from the real issues.

Having a child today has become an economic decision, and that YOU CAN blame on the femminists. A womens place is in the home, bringing up children, not working her ars3 off to contribute to an ever diminishing family budget, burdened with taxes.

Its an act of criminal proportions that young women today have to chose between a life of poverty with children, or a life of keeping her head above water working until she drops.

Taxes have now been devised that a household requires two people to be working to sustain a basic life, and that doesnt include children.

Scarlets - I agree with everything you just said in your last post.

Almost.

But - the point about condoms and sex education. When you have a broadly secular society (guided, perhaps, but not led by religious moral codes) you tend to get these things. It is only right,of course, that young people are told where babies come from, and how they might be prevented. And, yes, before you say it, that advice should include not having a willy up you in the first place. What you need to remember is that in these types of societies you also get truthful statistics about abortion.

Also, not sure about your attempt to slur doctors. I don't think there are many who want to see babies aborted for the sake of it. I'm certain that when a doctor advises that course of action, there will be good grounds for that advice (sure, there will be anecdotes that suggest otherwise - but my grandad smoked like a trooper and lived to 105. . . etc)

Groooooan!

Her place is her decision alone. Nothing to do with anyone else.

And BTW, bringing up kids IS the hardest work you can do

So bringing up kids is not a part time job ?

You still haven't read that have you.

I'll break it down.

The rate of abortion worldwide is going down:
A study published in the Lancet shows that between 1995 and 2003 the global rate of induced abortions fell from 35 per 1000 women each year to 29

inspite of the supposed breakdown of society
This period coincides with the rise of the “globalized secular culture” the Pope laments

this is because it is not the availability of contraception but the repression of the churches that leads to high abortion rates. You'll have to read the article to see why the former USSR is a separate case
When you look at the broken-down figures, it becomes clear that (except in the countries of the former Soviet Union) the incidence of abortion is highest in conservative and religious societies.

This is what the abortion rates are in various countries, starting with the least religious/most free
In the largely secular nations of western Europe, the average rate is 12 abortions per 1000 women
In the more religious southern European countries, the average rate is 18.
In the United States, where church attendance is still higher, there are 23 abortions for every 1000 women, the highest level in the rich world.
In Central and South America, where the Catholic Church holds greatest sway, the rates are 25 and 33 respectively.
In the very conservative societies of East Africa, it’s 39

The relevence of the post to the UK is not that the UK is experiencing a falling abortion rate, that is something you twice claimed that I said, because you would rather not contemplate the relationship between repression, freedom and abortion. Despite your 40 years of moral decline*, we have a lower abortion rate than Central America and equal to the average rate for Southern Europe (eg Italy, Greece). We have partially rejected religion but not had the full benefit of use of contraception because of religious objections to it
One abnormal outlier is the UK: our rate is 6 points higher than those of our western European neighbours - that means 18/1000


I've done all that for you, now for god's sake read it and take it in. This is obviously important to me, as I'm also against abortion, I simply want you to spread fact-based opinion instead of that church-based or emotion-driven drivel. It's more than simply disappointing that you persist in denying the facts, when they're so easily available, in favour of toeing the church's line on this. That's where your belief lets you down - you make yourself easily lead. That petition will not bring the abortion rate down to Western European levels, it will more likely increase it to Central American ones. What do you have to suggest that it won't, except for the patently false assertion that an abundance of contraception and lack of religious dogma leads to higher abortion rates?

EDIT: * sorry, that one was from your rant in another thread!

First of all, you need to admit you previously misled by stating that abortions were going down when the official statistics for the UK shows clearly they are going up and up and up.

Secondly, this is an UK petition dealing with UK abortion. Condoms and sex education have been readily available to all in this nation for many years and have not reduced abortion in this country. These are facts.

I understnad abortion rates are decresingin e.g. the USA but they've had strong anti-abortion pro-life campaigning there for years and years. We have not. This is our chance. Why muddy the waters, will you be signing the petition?

Hang on shouldnt we do summat about *****ing first?

Makes you go blind you know.

I agree with some of what you are saying such as aborting due to certain 'defects'

However I have not signed it because for general abortions I'm not convinced there is an alternative other than education and contraception

They really should be targetting the appropriate groups to reduce the numbers of unplanned pregnancies

No, just your "little" opinion.

Can you still not see the difference beween corelation and causation?

it's not working, we've had condoms and sex education for years yet abortions go up and up

the petition is for people who agree with legislation to go in the direction of reducing abortions, not increase them

Can you still not see the difference beween corelation and causation?

it's quite clear that here the correlation is due to causation
sex education (that doesn't promote marriage) and easy access to contraception has increased promiscuity under a false sense of security- that's why so many girls are destroying their unwanted babies

So you'd expect the abortion rate to be much higher in the Netherlands than in the US?

Why the hate? Oh come on, you can't really be that stupid can you? The hate is almost entirely emanating from the god botherers, pursuing avenues of social control and pseudo intellectual argument that I really thought had been discarded in the middle ages.

It is only them that gives a shit about nothing. A foetus is simply a parasite, endangering the life of its host and competing for resources. Do you also have this desire for cancer sufferers to retain their tumours?

so you compare unborn babies to a cancerous tumour? what a shocking view of life you have. Aren't you glad no one thought of you in that way?

why are you pro-death? I guess you're a fan of this Lib Dem MP, dubbed "Dr death" by the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

I wouldn't sign anything that Scarlets wanted me to sign on principle.

So it would lead to more one-parent families and young mothers - I thought you were against that also

Could it also lead to DIY abortions?

yeah so it's better to just kill the unborn right? into the dustbin it goes

I didnt say that - I'll leave it for you to ponder that one
However it seems right the decision should rest with the mother as they will have to live the rest of their life with whatever decision they make
So they should be made aware of the longer term impact of their decision if they want an abortion

If you are worried about deaths of the unborn what about the massive numbers of children who die throughout the world due to overpopulation?
We need a petition to ensure religious leaders allow contraception in the third world and educate people to have smaller families

The United Nations estimates more than 850 million people in the world are malnourished – and more than half of these are children

Each day, more than 18,000 children die of hunger

oh I agree, but sadly attempts to get MPs to vote on such measures were voted down by the pro-death MPs



non-sequitur
there's enough in this world to feed everyone
there's enough land on this world for everyone to live in
contraception is not the answer

So you'd expect the abortion rate to be much higher in the Netherlands than in the US?

I think we could probably ban ORGANISED religions with a hierachy (and receive money) - especially those which run against current legislation aimed at toleration and fairness.

What you believe is your own affair, making money from the feeble minded is wrong.

you are anti-freedom. That's one reason atheists/secularists scare me. The intolerance is incredible. They persecute those that disagree with their ungodly values.