while deciding where to invest a bit of money i figured gold and commodities is something which might go up soon and should be fairly low risk longterm as well. so i have invested a bit in a gold fond and and a bit in a commodity fond. i have also been on some gold forums and quite like the idea of owning some 'real' gold.

I understand that you pay quite a premium to buy gold coins, especially the small ones, but I have seen some Australian Nuggets 1/10th ounze being sold for 37.75 EUR which seems quite appealing. I consider having a few coins as a very long term investment, just in case, you never know....

does anyone own coins ? any experience where and what to buy ? do you think this is crazy / old fashioned ?

Thanks!

Hi

I've got a few coins. Mostly 1/10th and a few sovereigns. I'd stick with buying them from coin dealers until you are comfortable with telling the fakes from the real deal. I look at the "spot" price for an ounce coin and try to buy as close as I can to that price.

Don't be to put off with their lack of size. That is their strength.

My advice is to get a couple and see how you feel about having them. Personally I like the fact that I have them "just in case". I am very much in agreement with the Bullish sites as I feel that they make a decent case. There is only so much gold around and thanks to the hoarders (like me) the supply is dwindling.

I also have an Iraqi Dinar(?) with a picture of Saddam on it and a German note from when their currency experienced hyper inflation. Reminds me that if they had been converted to gold they'd still be worth something. Now they decorate my computer box.

1/10th oz gold coins are mostly considered to be jewellery grade, one of the most common coins for investment is the Krugerrand, it is well known worldwide and easily re-sellable

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/krugersindx.html

1oz coins are best for investment purposes IMO

I am quite tempted to buy a few gold coins from taxfreegold.

The thing that concerns me is how I would go about converting it into cash at some point in the future. Who can I sell the coins to for a good price?

Would I be better off investing in a gold fund?

As far as I'm concerned, gold coins are a safety net, not an investment: you pay over the odds when you buy them and lose over the gold price when you sell them... but if things get really bad, a few gold coins in the safe could come in real handy.

On the other hand, the more people who buy gold coins and bury them in their back garden, the higher the gold price will go .

I've been buying gold and silver in a 1:10 ratio.

Silver works out quite pricey in terms of £/oz even taking in to account the weak dollar - something like £5+ per oz. Ebay is your best bet, though don't buy 1oz bars individually cos of the postage. Go for 5oz,10oz or kilo bars.

Gold I've been buying from:

http://www.goldline.co.uk/goldlinedev/GC/G...HomeFrame.ghtml

either 1oz ingots or krugers, though I do have a stash of sovereigns as well.

https://online.kitco.com/selling/

There is actually a gold unit trust run by a bank (HSBC?). All money invested is used to by gold bullion, so the price of your units is an accurate reflection of the price of gold. I imagine commissions will be cheaper than a dealer's.

Remember that gold is always priced in USD, so the rise in gold also a reflection of the weaker dollar. I am not sure that that the increase has been so good in sterling terms.

Merrill Lynch Gold and General Fund - holds shares in mining companies not physical gold - has a bid/offer spread of more than 5%.

I was unpleasantly surprised.

Theres a very active market on ebay.

How can you tell the fakes from the real deal? I am interested in buying gold sovereigns
and/or Kruggerands, so any top tips would be great. Any recommendations for safe's to
keep them in?

Best regards

Frank

I used to own a Fisch fake coin detector. Works well and I sold it after I had bought the bulk of my coins. Google for Fisch to find their website.

You can also buy from www.goldline.co.uk and I think the spread is 7% on Krugerands (buy at 5% over spot, sell back at 2% under).

As for silver, don't buy bars from ebay! The premium stinks at up to 40%. That means at £4 an ounce, your silver would have to go to £5.60 to break even and more likely to £6.20 if the dealers buy at 10% under spot. Mind you, ebay is a good place to sell silver.

I refuse to buy silver at such prices, it is cheaper to buy them from US dealers!

although I like the idea of buying gold, you have to be fairly certain of its direction if you have to take an imediate 7% loss to buy in. Does that include the secure courier fee you probably need to pay too?

What's the most efficient way of buying around 2k of gold?

I'd agree with Mark G on this, if your going to buy physical gold it will cost you, about 5% is normal with 1oz Krugers, it's a safety net, not an investment ( in normal circumstances )

Point is this, you buy them in cash from a coin dealer, no recepit, no cards, nothing. The money you used has disappeared off the system, no one will no that you have that stash of gold coins.

I have a small number of Gold coins, they are an insurance policy and if ever I need them circumstances will be such that there value to me will be immeasurable. Gold has historically held it's value well, and in times of crisis it tends to rise disproportionately.

Not to get too mad max but in the event of a pandemic, a war, a major terrorist strike or just a temporary collapse of the banking system who knows what, then a little bit of off line insurance is nice to have.

Also IMO the feel of a handful of pure 22c gold coins in your hands is lurvely

For the record I have 1 oz KRs and I hide them.... not even Mrs M knows about them, so if I get run over it'll give an archeologist a nice suprise one day.

You would pay about £5 for insured delivery.

Just to say that you buy gold to hold. It is not something you trade unless it is shares, futures or options. The next 50 years are not going to be so good as the previous 50 and I don't just mean a downturn in the UK housing sector! Gold is wealth preserver in uncertain times.

All investments carry a charge or spread, even popular shares. The 3%-5% markup on gold coins is not a big deal.

The same goes for silver in my opinion.

Ive been reading this, and i wonder why you dont just hide cash ? if you incur all these charges ?

Many years ago I dealt with a Leeds bullion dealer called Ross - Who also offered, what he said, was an excellent deal where he kept the kruggers safe for you and paid you 3.5% interest on their value. Yes, he paid you 3.5% !!

Thankfully I took mine home to to caress and count. However many didn't and, when the inevitable scam was uncovered and Mr.Ross had fled to Israel, he was found to have parted around £7 million from his customers, although police believed the real total to be much higher as, of course, for lots of the 'investors' this wasn't money they wished the authorities to have too much knowledge of!

He was eventually caught and returned to the UK and, if memory serves me right got 6 years - served three. Worth it? I guess it depends on whether he met any of his ex-clients associates in Armley?

I guess gold will go up, cash hidden in a tin won't! It'll depreciate!

You incur an inflationary charge by not offsetting the effects of inflation in an interest-bearing bank account. Gold on the other hand, goes down during deflation/disinflation and up during inflation/reflation. Cash has the opposite effect.

Anyone know if taking your coins abroad will be a problem if you emigrate?
Might have to pay tax on them or something?
Would it be easy to sneak them through or would they be detected?

Good thread. Sorry to sound green, but why the Krugerrand? They are south african-would it be better to buy brittish full sovereigns?

Goldline Bullion Coin prices today:

Australia Nugget 1oz £268.25

Austria Philharmoniker 1oz £268.25

Belgium Ecu 1oz £265.50

Canada Maple Leaf 1oz £255.25

Great Britain Britannia 1 oz £273.25

South Africa Krugerrand 1oz £252.25

U.S.A. Eagle 1oz £261.25


The British coin is the most expensive for the same weight of gold. This could be the reason it is less attractive to investors. The Krugerrand is the cheapest therefore is perhaps the best choice.

I just ordered a Britannia though because it is aparently the most Beautiful

Ta,I think I will buy a few Krugerrands they look a good buy for insurance sakes.

written in 1997, interesting read,considering gold is back upto 425.
http://www.btimes.co.za/97/0914/btmoney/btmoney.htm
ARE the days of gold as a great powerhouse of wealth gone for good? The shiny metal was sitting pretty at $485 an ounce in 1983, but today is priced at a gloomy $324 .<P>

Thanks. It actually got worst as gold kept on going down into 1999/2001 to form a double bottom of $255 an ounce. Central banks were also heavy sellers of gold until the Washington Agreement limited annual bullion sales. This caused a short-covering spike move of $70 I believe.

anyone bought coins recently ? I listened (again) to this last night:

http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm (July 1, 4th hour)

and since those guys are saying it again and again (to invest in gold !), I bought some coins last night (I invested in some gold and national resource funds some time ago already (which went up recently) and thought I need some precious metal in my pocket now). Just a few really and I know I won't get rich with them, but I felt it would be nice to have a few 1 oz gold coins, who knows when they come in handy...

BTW, I bought them from mainland europe in EUR, the rates converted into pound were much better than if I would have bought here in the UK. Is it normal that gold coins bought with EUR are cheaper than those bought with GBP ?

where did you get them from may I ask - I'm always looking out for the cheapest supplier

http://www.muenzhandlung-pickel.de/

with a little bit of german you should find what you want (click on the SHOP link). You will have to transfer the money into their bank account though, but it seems a reputable company . I will let you know when I received my coins if you are interested.

BTW, prices for the 1 oz coins droppend by 1 and 2 EUR since I bought them,

Krügerrand 1oz Gold 357,00 EUR
Maple Leaf 1oz Gold 362,00 EUR
Nugget 1oz Gold 362,00 EUR

That seems to work out at about £10 cheaper for the krugers Nuggets about £15 cheaper. That is compared with Goldline.

So after reading this thread I still have no idea of how to go about buying a gold coin. Can anyone list through all the steps.

Is this correct...
If i go online to
1/ http://www.muenzhandlung-pickel.de/
or
2/ http://www.goldline.co.uk/goldlinedev/GC/G...HomeFrame.ghtml

I can buy gold and they will deliver them to my house??

What if I wanted to pay cash, where would i have to go? Is there a UK company across the UK that i can walk into with a reputation of honesty?


2nd Question...
Where do you guys store all your gold. You dont have to precisely tell me of course i wouldnt mind a map with an x on it.
Do you have safes or do you just dig a hole or do you rent a safety container at a bank?

1. Search on the nete for Gold Coin / Bullion dealers. There are for example several in London.

2. Go along and ask the current price for a KR.

3. Go and withdraw the appropriate amount of cash from an ATM, return to shop and buy coins.

That's it.

I get mine from Goldline. You can order online and wait for them to e-mail you an invoice. Then you have to send a cheque which will require 10 business days to clear. They then send you your coins by registered post. They are honest and reliable but you get your coins about 3 weeks after ordering them.
The other way you can do it is to go into their office with cash and walk out with your gold. Telephone them first to check they have the coins you want.
As for hiding, anywhere you wouldnt expect a thief to look if you got burgled like under the floorboards fro example. If I had a garden I would bury mine.

Gold has gone up recently in pounds due too weakness against the dollar. Which proves how good it works as an insurance when your paper money isn't worth so much anymore.

Gold also had an upwards push recently; even though the dollar was getting stronger, which is a good signal.

The beauty of holding coins and bars is quite simple IMO. No-one can take it from you and nobody has a record of your wealth. You could go in, buy the Gold in any name you like for reciept purposes. Plus, look at the pensions and endowment shortfalls ? your better off looking after your own wealth and gold couldn't be a better choice. A gold coin 50 years ago would buy you a suit, and so will it today. I wonder what the cash price of the suit would buy you now ?

Good luck all

If you buy carefully on ebay, you can buy sovereigns at (or sometime even very slightly below) the spot gold price, especially if buying a few. I dont know why gold line charge so much for them.

A sovereign contains .2354 troy ounces pure gold, giving them an intrinsic gold value of £56.50 at the time of writing.
Doing a quick search on sold sovereigns this week on ebay shows common sovereigns going for £55 - 60. There's obviously postage costs to take into account, which is why its better to buy a few at a time. One I noted even went for £51.09 + £2 postage!

Personally I think they are a nicer coin than the Kruger. They have a bit of history, and you can buy interesting, collectable victorian coins for only a small amount over the spot price.

How do you test the purity of gold if you dont believe your source is selling the real deal?


(On a different note, my police contacts were telling me that they arrested Turkish people in Ireland stealing gold from houses (necklaces etc) then melting it down and sending it away to Turkey. So if any turks near you, eyeball them cause their probably eyeballing you!)

Q. Anyone know how chavs melt down their stolen broken dish washers etc.

Think of gold as an insurance policy rather than an investment. That is a massive spike in the price of gold usually coincides with something negative in the "traditional" financial markets. That said the ususal suggestion is 5% of total assets in gold and another 2% in junk silver.

I own several ounces of physical gold bullion, a mix of everything (Crowns, KR, Eagles, Pandas, Philharmonics, Nuggets). If I were to recommend one I would choose the Chinese Panda bullion since it is designated in Yuan (500 for the 1oz). If China floats the Yuan you would see the premium rise on the Pandas.

On Goldline - Why is the price of 1oz more expensive than teh price of another 1oz say the panda vs the kruggerrand?

1oz kruggerrand = £254
1oz Panda = £315

If you really wanted to couldnt you melt down your kruggerrand and mould them into pandas?
Is 1oz of gold in one state not the same value of 1oz gold in another state?


2nd question
-----------------------
How much should you pay for a TROY ounce of silver?

What is the difference between a TROY ounce and 1oz. (i expect the answer to be nothing!)

Krugerrands have no legal tender value.

Krugerrands are not as pure (22k vs 24k). While they do contain 1oz of gold, the entire coin weighs 1.09oz the rest being copper. That said they are more scratch resistant than 24k coins.

Krugerrands are common and don't carry a numismatic premium.

Does any gold coin carry a legal tender value?

Why do people here sugegst buying the kruggerrand over other coins?

Yes, there are gold coins that have a legal tender value:

Chinese Panda = 500 Yuan
American Eagle = 50 Dollars
British Crown = 1 Crown

If you want to buy bullion and don't care for the numismatic premium, then go with the Krugerrand.

reading the thread i noticed someone talking of the premium silver carries.

there are a couple reasons for this.

silver in the uk silver carries vat, if you imported from the usa you would incur this vat+ import charges that would work out about 40% more, so that aint a option.


Silver is actually scarcer in the uk for this reason



The reason sovereigns are a little more over spot is collectability.
you pay a little more for a 100 year old coin than a 5 year old kuger, there more diserable.

sovereigns used to be the worlds currency, there reconised all over the world, you wont find a collectable kugger there just a way of measuring and selling an ounce of gold.sovereigns this are diffrent.


it costs the same to manufacture a 1 ounce silver coin as it does a 1 ounce gold coin, costs the same to package it and ship it, this is another reason there is a premium on silver coins.


if your going to buy silver a common way is to buy silver eagles in tubes, once bought you dont even open the tubes, these have a good chance of being collectable in the future, some years even selling now for 3-5x the silver content.


personally i have sovereigns halfs and full ones, silver eagles, 1kg bars and some junk usa silver coins.


remember when you pay that extra for the silver, you will get that extra over spot back when you sell, it holds the vat and the import taxes, these dont vanish once purchased, just be carefull some bullion dealer wants to just pay you spot price for it because that sounds attractive.Truth is there saving all the import taxes ect.


Most bullion dealers wont touch silver because of this and only realy sell what they buy from there customers, slapping on the usual 30-40% over spot, best way to buy silver is prob ebay and the same for selling it.


Do some research before buying anything, and never buy a big lot of a guy as a first contact, buy a few small lots till you build trust, there are lot of sharks out there, but then that goes for anything you buy.

A Troy ounce is is 31.1 grams, a normal (averdupois?) ounce is 28.35 grams. Not sure why the difference.

Regarding measuring the purity, I have read that is a coin is made of anything other than its stated purity, than either its weight, or measurement must be changed to compensate. So I weigh on electronica scales & measure my coins against others. I doubt its 100%, but should stop most fakes.

Personally I buy from ebay, from those who sell a lot of coins, and have all good feedback.

What kind of coins do you buy Flick.

I dont fancy spending 1k on coins and then them being sent through royal mail after watching that undercover documentary the other day.

You're getting me worried now delboypass, having done what you dont fancy doing a few times now. What did they do in the undercover documentary?
Are you saying that my name and address are now on a government comuter for owning gold coins? Or worse perhaps?

Lol do you really think our government is that sophisticated?

No, royal mail just hired immigrants to cover the workforce shortfalls and they basically nicked everything of value.Birthday card money, vouchers, passports, credit cards, giro books etc even through the special delivery centre which is royal mails highest security.

I have a selection of both sovereigns & krugers.

I've broken the first rule of investment & become quite attached to my sovereigns, the krugers will be first to go when its the right time to buy a house.

If you go registered post (about £4), I dont think you have much to worry about. Its fully insured... though I've never needed to make a claim...

By the way, I enjoyed your posts on the MSE forum, its about someone there told them like it is Keep up the good work !

Opps - i thought i was hiding there. Its just some of them are so stupid and others are deliberately out on the big con. Some are also unlucky.

Looking on Ebay for my first gold coin.

How do you test your gold coins though? Or do you just believe that they are real?
I watch CSI about 5 times a day so I know Grissom probably has a way!

Most fakes are exact in weight.

See http://www.fisch.co.za

One must be crazy to buy gold on ebay!

Hmmm That tool doesnt look so sophisticated.

Is there no better test. All that tool does is the weight etc and all those tests can be faked.