anyone else?

YOUR GOING TO LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY!!!!

JOKING OF COURSE!

anyone else?

YOUR GOING TO LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY!!!!

anyone else?

YOUR GOING TO LOSE ALL YOUR MONEY!!!!

No, you are thinking of a bank

You obviously don't understand Bullion Vault. It's safer than a bank

BV DOWN:
back up by 10:45am ... hmmm....

so are houses. they are physical.

... houses are currently a depreciating asset class. Commodities are currently an appreciating asset class.

What do you mean?

It's still up as far as I can see.

BullionVault can go into administration, just like any other company
and investors can lose *all* their investment, just like any other company.

BullionVault can go into administration, just like any other company
and investors can lose *all* their investment, just like any other company.

WRONG...
check it out. If they go into admin, they will pay you your gold in physical form. They do not allow you to specify bars or coins, but they are under legal obligation to give you your gold. You are only paying them to store it for you. It is yours.

Not true, I believe - you own the bullion directly, not via the company. It is and always will be yours, until you sell it. Going into administration would have no effect, other than to make the process of getting hold of it and selling it more laborious and time-consuming.

Assuming that the gold is really and physically in this vault. Imagine if it wasnt?

So, you have invested money in a company which tells you it has some gold in a vault and gives you some sort of electronic record, and maybe even bits of paper which are it's promise to pay you gold?

Smells like a scam score 5/10.

Assuming that the gold is really and physically in this vault. Imagine if it wasnt?

I have invested nothing. But IMO it's safer than physical, which might be stolen. Not a scam at all.

As I understand it, much of the "Gold" is held in liquid currency, to facilitate trading.

As I understand it, much of the "Gold" is held in liquid currency, to facilitate trading.

As I understand it, much of the "Gold" is held in liquid currency, to facilitate trading.

I'd rather have a bar or two at home.
Unless you feel the need to show it off at parties to make up for a small ***** or something it's not too hard to find a decent hiding place.

If that's the case, then an investor can still lose the lot.

True, one could spend years trying to get it back, but life is too short for that kind
of investment.

WRONG...
check it out. If they go into admin, they will pay you your gold in physical form. They do not allow you to specify bars or coins, but they are under legal obligation to give you your gold. You are only paying them to store it for you. It is yours.

enlighten me, which "legal obligation" is that, and how do you prove to the administrator that you are the person who signed up for the gold when you come to collect it.

Sounds to me like you have bought a share in a pile of gold. no bit is yours at divi time, Plus if they cant trade, at what price could you be compensated, what with ongoing storage cost, the costs of filing your bit away from an ingot, the costs of resmelting all the filings.

I find yogic breathing exercises are very good for inducing a clear head when one feels an overriding sense of panic at the possibility of losing everything.

enlighten me, which "legal obligation" is that, and how do you prove to the administrator that you are the person who signed up for the gold when you come to collect it.

Sounds to me like you have bought a share in a pile of gold. no bit is yours at divi time, Plus if they cant trade, at what price could you be compensated, what with ongoing storage cost, the costs of filing your bit away from an ingot, the costs of resmelting all the filings.

We are very specific about this. We disassociate BullionVault from unallocated gold and gold accounts. BullionVault stores your physical gold bullion. But aside from unallocated accounts gold ownership schemes frequently abstract your gold ownership by placing a formal trust between you and the gold. This mechanism would vest legal title in the trust, and you would become a beneficiary of the trust. You would then need to develop an unhealthy interest in trust deeds to understand your position. At any rate you would not personally own gold.



BullionVault does not do that. Under our Terms and Conditions you employ BullionVault as your agent and impose on us a formal and legal duty of care in arranging the storage of your gold. In the modern world this is an uncommon ownership arrangement which we invite you to read about in detail in our FAQs under the subject of bailments.

Ok, so they have a picture of my driving licence and my a/c details. They know who i am.
One can take physical delivery; someone did it with 40kg a month or so ago.
The legal stuff is here:



check it out yourself...

As I said, it isn't true - shows a basic misunderstanding of the business.

Dear BullionVault user,

This week BullionVault is making a rare return of gold bullion to
the main markets, taking us just below six tonnes – twice what
we held in October.

This gives me a chance to explain one of our security features
(more about that in a minute) and also to give you a bit more
insight into how BullionVault works.

We like to stay broadly balanced in both cash and gold at all times,
to offer you consistent, instant liquidity whether you’re a buyer
or a seller. When BullionVault's customers are net buyers we go
to the main market to buy gold. Steady net selling from you makes
us sell the surplus of gold, receiving a top up in cash from the
main market.

This flattens what would otherwise become a long gold position. We
prefer to stay nearly flat, because that's the responsible, low-risk
way of running our business. And free from worrying about trying to
"beat" our customers on price, I have learned to have the highest
regard for BullionVault customer shrewdness.

I stand corrected.

My misunderstanding appears to be from a misunderstanding of an e-mail I recently received from BV. As I appear to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, please can you explain it to me, as it currently makes no sense to me? Thanks...




The only other explanation I can think of is that BV holds an amount of currency equal to the current value of the stored bullion. Can that be true?

surely if a customer is selling gold, another customer buys it, as they are buying from their own stock?

Timm, that is a worry, as you rightly point out. BV is a closed market surely.

I believe they use a complex model called a collateralised gold obligation. Good thing gold always goes up. Terribly complicated, only three people in the world understand them, apparently.

enlighten me, which "legal obligation" is that, and how do you prove to the administrator that you are the person who signed up for the gold when you come to collect it.

Sounds to me like you have bought a share in a pile of gold. no bit is yours at divi time, Plus if they cant trade, at what price could you be compensated, what with ongoing storage cost, the costs of filing your bit away from an ingot, the costs of resmelting all the filings.

The only other explanation I can think of is that BV holds an amount of currency equal to the current value of the stored bullion. Can that be true?

I have invested nothing. But IMO it's safer than physical, which might be stolen. Not a scam at all.

The only other explanation I can think of is that BV holds an amount of currency equal to the current value of the stored bullion. Can that be true?


My interpretation of this is only that BV act as a buffer. They have cash on hand in case more people sell gold than buy it 'today' (i.e. when BV's customers are 'net sellers'); they also have gold on hand in case more people buy than sell (when BV's customers are 'net buyers').

This sounds like nonsense to me. The market is a closed one, for every buyer there will be a seller- unless a fair proportion of the gold belongs to the house- in which case, this company is certainly open to failure in the event of a bad speculation- by them.

The only other explanation I can think of is that BV holds an amount of currency equal to the current value of the stored bullion. Can that be true?


My interpretation of this is only that BV act as a buffer. They have cash on hand in case more people sell gold than buy it 'today' (i.e. when BV's customers are 'net sellers'); they also have gold on hand in case more people buy than sell (when BV's customers are 'net buyers').

glod

That's like saying that Schrodinger's cat is safer than your own cat, which might get run over

BullionVault can go into administration, just like any other company
and investors can lose *all* their investment, just like any other company.

Erm, if one can believe the structure they set up, this is not the case. The gold is held in bailement. You own the gold, not bullionvault, so their creditors cannot get to it. (In much the same way as a broker that gives you a CREST account cannot touch your shares when they go bust, but one that holds them in a nominee account (like all share ISAs) have to hand them over to the liquidators.) Whether you can get to it is another matter. In the case of a collapse or similar dire situation, bullionvault claim you can take delivery of full bars or, for a capped percentage fee, the gold can be delivered in smaller coins/bars. Of course, this does not stop a government stealing it from you or bullionvault being involved in some major fraud etc.

Well, it was only an interpretation. I'd be grateful for a better one.