Hello,

My tennants have just vacated the flat. Now they were excellent tennants and were in the flat for 18 months and I have new tennants moving in about 2 weeks after they leave on a 2 year lease.

I have just seen the flat and it is in perfect condition but obviously not professionaly cleaned. The toilets and shower cubicles are a bit grimey and the drawers have hairs and some bits and pieces in them.

The tennant E-mailed me to say he had the flat professionaly cleaned, curtains drycleaned, carpets washed etc but I don't think this is the case at all. Apart from this they have been model tennants.

Should I take the cleaning fee off their deposit and how do I do this without accusing them of lieing about having the flat professionaly cleaned? It's not a pigsty but not fit for my calibre of tennants moving in.

Any advice appreciated.

Four words. Fair wear and tear.

2 hours with a hoover and some limelite would fix it so not worth the argument, the most you could posibly claim is £20... any more is punitive and you can't make punitive charges.

You could try asking for receipts but given most cleaners just go through the motions I imagine they probably did employ a cleaner.

No point in creating ill will for no gain be thankfull they were good tenants and move on

Another four words.

"No it is not"

Fair wear and tear refers to the principle that certain fixtures and fittings will naturally deteriorate over time in normal use. For example, carpets become thinner and paintwork becomes faded and/or marked simply by virtue of being used. Fair wear and tear does not cover the situation when tenants leave the shower grimy or their hair in drawers (yuk).

Firstly, if, notwithstanding the grimy shower etc, it is in perfect condition, then why is it not fit for the new tenants?

Secondly, and this is the most important thing to consider when considering making deductions from a tenant's deposit, is what condition the property was in when you let it to the tenants who are now leaving. If the property was slightly grimy etc when they moved in, then they are simply leaving it in the same condition as it was when they moved in, and no deductions are permitted.

Hope that helps

Is it worth the hassle of arguing over £20?

Equally, T may agree and not argue over £20.

Hi there, if you do not pay their desposit back and they take you to the small claims court, then you could be liable for paying the court fee and their expenses.

I've had to take LL's to court under these circumstances and always cover myself by taking photographs and keeping receipts. It's not unusual for a "professional" to leave a flat in a poor state. The companies who do this employ groups of badly paid immigrants and do not bother checking when done.

My last flat was said to be "professionaly" cleaned but there was still food waste in the cupboards and personal things in the drawers and behind the furniture. This isn't unusual.

I'm glad to hear that you had good tenants and hope the next lot are as well.

I've just had a quote from the concierge saying cleaning my apartment (everything) would cost 195 quid. That's for everything including getting the carpets and curtains done (it does say in the lease this needs to be done). I really only want a house keeper to come in and give it a good clean though so not sure how they came up with that amount. Maybe I'll shop around myself a bit and see what I can get. The deposit is 2100 pounds so we're only talking a small percentage of this for cleaning anyway.

I'll have a discussion with my tennant and see what he says I think. I don't personally hold his deposit. It's with a deposit holding agency so any reductions would need to be agreed with the tennant.

Most agreements include the tenant paying for proffesional cleaning upon leaving.

I would ask for the receipt, and suggest they get the cleaners back if not happy with the cleaning.

Someone mentioned 20quid for cleaning, well its 100 quid to clean an oven, and 20 quid would get you 30 minutes cleaning services from a proffesional company.

If it were me, I would give them the opportunity to clean it up, most tenants are happy to pay the 200 cleaning bill to save the hassle.

The shower is "a bit" grimey - how grimey does grimey have to be before it becomes unacceptable? How clean does a carpet have to be before it is REALLY clean? If there are bacteria left behind in the fridge is the fridge dirty?

Fair wear and tear is what a normal person would consider to be a normal state for something to be in if it had been used in a normal way, cleaned and taken care of in a normal way. It does not refer to laying down carpets over the fitted carpets in case some dirt gets in there that can't even be lifted during professional cleaning. It does not refer to returning the place back to what it looked like when it was brand new. Dirt gets into houses and a certain amount can never be removed no matter how much effort is made to remove it. If someone has taken care of the place (they were "good tenants") and have cleaned the place before they left to a standard that MOST people would find NORMAL, then it is FAIR wear and tear.

If they had taken a dump in the toilet and not flushed it it ... well that clearly wouldn't be FAIR would it?

Tennant has agreed for me to take full professional cleaning amount off his deposit so problem sorted. Can anybody explain to me why it costs 195 quid to clean a 2 bedroom flat, plus carpets curtains and windows. Seems a bit steep to me but it is London.

You are a complete weed and a wimp.

Roll up your sleeves and get cleaning you idle, lazy, tight-fisted landlard.

Don't you know you're running a business here?

Then, it's about time you actually did some work.

My LL moaned about some dust when I last left a place (im now an owner thank god!) . I sarcastically offered £10. He took it. What a freak!

I left the place cleaner than when I moved in. The LL used to live there and left the place in a right state - just showed how low their living standards were. Embarressing really. Some people like to live in filth I guess?!

That aside, I do think the tennants should leave the place clean, its just good manners. It is also the etiquette when selling your house.

When I rent a car, the agreement is that I start off with a clean car.

When I return the car they'll deduct for any damage I've caused. But the car hire wash the car and put the vac round the inside.

That's what I'm paying for when I rent something.

Car hire
Tool hire
Suit hire
TV rental

and then house rental!
What are these landlards on? Can't they just roll up their sleeves and clean the place ready for the next renter? For Pete's sake they take enough rent.

Because it`s an easy way to extract every last drop of value from the tenancy!

It all comes down to reasonableness - if the LL doesn't put a "clean" clause in the contract it's difficult for him to argue when the property is returned truly filthy - and by filthy I mean takeaways, dog-szit & bags of sugar & coffee dropped on the carpet & just trodden in.