A Church of England bishop who claimed Islamic extremism has made some places no-go areas for non-Muslims insists he was right to speak out on the issue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7261237.stm

The Bishop of Rochester, the Rt Rev Dr Michael Nazir-Ali was clearly right to bring this subject as he is now under 24 hour police protection. A very clear sign that if you speak out against Islam your life is in danger.

WTF????

Are you in danger from all Muslims or just a tiny minority? (like any group has a tiny group of extremists)

What effect do you think this will have on house prices?

A lot if you live in a muslim no go area

Need to allow for the cost of extra sound insulation if you are buying a house near a mosque if you are not of the faith and dont want to be called to morning prayer.

The cost of bomb proof limo and bullet proof double glazing.

cant they just text them?

In fact why dont they just go anyway at say 9 o clock everyday? not rocket science is it

No it has to be loud...............allllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhh. or in this case it might be Jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Not a problem, would you like the Mondeo or Omega?

http://www.edisposals.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP...9IAAAEQxv9z1HxN

Not a bad price, might buy one for trips into hyson green.

try before first light with all due respect seeing the way this thread is going nothing wrong with any body practicing their chosen faith and I want to add here that my original answer was about how it could impact on a house price, if you were buying next to a mosque I am sure you would have taken that into consideration

If Islam is such a great religion then why do they have to call people to prayer? They should be banging on the doors of the mosque to get in.

Or next to an illegal halal slaughter house. I can remember walking down a street in hyson green only to have to step over a stream of blood coming from a garage on the side of a butchers. They were illegally killing lambs, I reported it but nothing was done and it's still there today....too sensitive....god i hate muslims. dirty horrid people.

Well, the lesson is that there are limits to tolerance. Should we tolerate the intolerable? I'm not right-wing, I'm a leftie if anything, but the west bowing down to totalitarian islamic sensibilities in the name of political correctness will lead us to disaster. Not that this has much to do with house prices!

Deleted silly post

Dubsie,

I couldn't find the bit about 24 hour protection in the article. Are you sure you read it there?

I never know if I'm an anarchist, some-sort-of-liberal, leftie, or small-c conservative these days but you're right - it's naive to think the growth of Islam in society isn't a huge issue. Islam isn't a nice religion and even many so called 'moderates' have incredibly backwards and reactionary views compared to mainstream society.

However, we also have to ask why the heck 50% of all news coverage is now muslim-related. On one hand the same fascist-communist regime, and it's various offshoots, is schizophrenically heralding islam as the wonderful religion of peace while simultaneously demonising it in order to bring in more totalitarian control methods which are instantly applied to anyone from hippy peace protestors to drunks to dodgy banking executives.

So we have islam as a problem in liberal societies and the quite seperate issue of islam as a budding totalitarian's swiss army knife to justify all sorts of crackdowns on liberty and imperialist invasions. It doesn't much matter to these bastards if you 'turn against' islamification or do a Rowan Williams - it's all good to them in their quest to demoralise and divide and conquer.

Coz we beat the Commies so the Muslims are the next threat (but we might get bored and have a go at the chinkies instead.)

But of course all you numpties spouting your racist hyperbole on this thread fall for a bit of state sponsored Orwellian bullsh*t every time.

You don't feel comfortable until you have another minority to aim at.

THIS THREAD IS NOT EVEN WORTHY OF THE BNP - SHAME ON YOU.

We ring the church bells for half an hour instead.

Reminder, this is a forum not a WASP country club. I feel sorry for any like minded, priced out decent law -abiding loyal, British Muslims reading this.
I do not think I would post.

Mudslums have it in for ALL Kuffars not just White Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

How can ANY Muslims be "decent" and adhere to a religion which advocates the extermination of Homosexuals, the supremacy of it's adherants over non-believers, genital mutilation of children, inhumane slaughter of animals, the inequality of men and women, etc etc.

If you believe that and all the other evil guff that makes up Islam then you be definition NOT a decent person. The only decent Muslim is a former Muslim/apostate. And we know how Islam advocates they be dealt with.

Since when has Islam been a race?

It's time to nip this in the bud. We've managed to tame one mysogonist homophobic backward religion in the uk. Shame if another is allowed to take over.

I think what we are witnessing in the UK at the moment is a breed of fundamental Islam -- but as usual It is a small minority that is used to paint all muslims with the same brush
I am a firm believer that if someone emigrates to a country they should adopt that country's culture - and I think that it is utter madness that a Govt will bend over backwards to help an alien culture to be adopted in its own state.

For a long time I thought that the Muslim religion was a backward and medi evil religion and based on its teachings today I would assume that it is.
However in the 8th Century when most Europeans were still living in Mud huts, the Muslims conquered Spain and the way of life there at that time resembled nothing of the fanatism that we see in the UK today

http://www.xmission.com:8000/~dderhak/index/moors.htm#foura


I believe that there can be some or many decent Muslims - that do not agree with the fundamentalist Islam that we are witnessing
Like look at the "Christian" eegits below --- Do they represent Christianity? -- no they are a load of half wits.

http://www.godhatesireland.com/

Are you holding up the unprovoked invasion of Christian Iberia by the forces of Islam as some sort of example??? This is typical of the attempts to rewrite history to suit the multicultural agenda. Mud huts my @rse Iberia at the time had great cities conected to to the Mediteranian trade network.

The first act of the Islamic commander Tariq ibn-Ziyad (who gave his name to Gibraltar - Jab-al-Tariq) was to execute captured prisoners, cut off their flesh and boil it in cauldrons.

It was only at the battle of Poitiers that Western Europe turned the Islamic tide. Iberia finally managed to free itself of Islamic imperialism during the reconquista.

Westborough Baptists are an extremely annoying bunch of clowns but they don't represent even 0.0001% of "Christians". The extermination of homosexuals and Apostates etc are part of mainstream Islam. There's no getting around this.

Can there be some or many decent Nazis? Surely if you don't agree with the fundamental basics of Islam then you become an apostate?

I'm glad you've taken up the mantel of the dangers of Islam.

The other thing you'll notice (if you haven't already), is those which call you a 'racist' won't stay around to try and justify or defend the rights & rituals of Islam.

Something which even the most liberal of liberals would be uncomfortable with.

Quite.

Islam is an ideology not a race. How the hell can it be "racism" to be horrified by an ideology which is demonstrably evil?

Islamophobia is the new catchphrase. It makes about as much sense as Naziphobia or Commiephobia. A phobia is an IRRATIONAL fear. A strong dislike of Islam is a very RATIONAL stance to take.

Sorry I should of made myself clearer - When the Uk was still living in Mud huts there was a far more sophisticated society in Spain - controlled by the Muslims.

Are you saying that Jews, Christians and Muslims living along side each other in Spain in the 8th century is a history rewrite?

Of course there can't be some or many decent Nazi's but there could of been some or many decent Germans at the time.
There is a difference between a Muslim and an Islamic Extremist.
All nazis were German but no all germans were nazis, All Islamic extremists are Muslims - but not all muslims are islamic Extremists

Yes if you don't believe the teachings of Islam you are an apostate - but this is not where the problem lies
the problem is - what course of action should be taken against apostates- Islamic Extremists have taken it to mean that all non believers should be murdered

Sorry I fail to see the relevance? Yes the mediteranian was more "advanced" in building technology than Northern Europe at that time - so what? African's were living in Mud huts when the European colonised them - it doesn't make Imperial agression acceptable does it?

They weren't living alongside each other as equals - Christians and Jews were subject to the laws of Dhimmitude as a result of Islamic imperial agression. You do accept the Islamic invasion of Spain was unprovoked agression do you???

A more accurate comparison would be to say not all Nazis were members of the SS. However their ideology still supported the SS.

I'm sure many muslims live reasonable lives inspite of their ideology - just as many Nazis did. However that doesn't mean we can overlook the inherrent evil of the ideology.

HI Jackster1,

No you are right, but and this is the problem with any religion, but more importantly Islam, in that it is possible and has happened lots of times, for a Moderate Muslim to move to becoming an 'extremist Muslim' in a matter of weeks.

If you view the C4 about Islam, you'll see a learned Muslim Dr (having been asked the question), saying in his research it takes about a week and a half from a muslim to go from an inactive stance to an active one!

I kid you not, its on one of the C4 programs.

As has been stated on this board severals times, it's the indoctrination these people endure when they are young. Its like a button (it would seem), that someone presses in their brain and off they go to get their 69 virgins or what ever the number is.

So, if you were to ask me, do I trust em, the answer is no, I do not.

You refer to British muslims as British muslims. I don't refer to myself as a British atheist, I just refer to myself as British.

Why is that I wonder?

It's there

"Since making the comments in January he has received threats against himself and his family. Dr Nazir-Ali and his family are now under police protection."

My opinion is that until Islam can change to follow our laws and beliefs then they should excercise a very good British Freedom....."THE RIGHT TO LEAVE AND GO BACK TO A COUNTRY WHERE ISLAM DOMINATES THE LAW". Why should we change our laws to encompass Islam or why should animals be cruely slaughtered because of a religion that has no place in this country.

I really wish they would all go away and take their nasty ways with them. They and the politically correct do gooders have made me feel this way...they are creating hate.

The relevance is that as I originally posted - that Islam seems to be a very backdated medeval religion - from what we witness today. but it was experiencing a renaissaince style of living - when England was still living a medievil existance

No it does not make imperial aggression acceptable - but Imperial agression has always happened regardless of acceptability or not, the Muslims in Spain don't get the monopoly on that either
I'm sure the Africans living in mud huts - weren't to happy with the imperial aggression imposed on them by the British and German.
The oppression faced by the jews and christians under muslim rule - was more of a financial oppression
I agree it was an unprovoked attack but again - while unacceptable it happened regardless - but is not an isolated incident, throughout history this has happened

Why is your comparison more accurate than mine?

You are confusing Religion with ideology
The muslim religion has been used by islamic extremists to promote their own ideology. By politizing various islamic teachings and restricting information, they use it to manipulate the masses like in the example Bulltrader has used below




I don't doubt this for a second - the problem is how do you prevent extremists brainwashing muslims, without taking away their right to follow their religion?

A difficult one. But one I think the French are ahead of us in that respect. Basically they monitor every mosque, who goes in and out, who preaches and who listens.

Now, liberals ( ) will scream an infringment on human rights, but I'd say these type of precautions are a safe guard.

Sometimes the rights of an individual group must be wayed up against protecting the vast majority of society and I would argue, also protecting those Muslims (which, like the vast majority of Christians in this country), only take the more paliatable parts from their said religious texts.

You'll also note that it was the French in the late 90's which warned our government about the rise of radical Islam on these shores.

Trying to make Islam acceptable now by cherrypicking a "renaisance" style of living in the 8th century seems idiotic at best and deliberate apologism at worst - Islam is backwards because of what it teaches NOT because it can't build cities. I'd also suggest this "renaisance" style of living is not what you might think - see the 1066 massacre of Jews in Granada 4,000 jewish men women and children massacred in one day.

I believe my comparison is more accurate because "German" is an ethnic group and National Socialism is an Ideology. Islam is an ideology NOT an ethnic Group. So not all Germans were Nazis just as not all Egyptians are muslim.. However ALL muslims MUST believe in the basics of the ideology or they are Apostates.

I think you are failing to grasp that Islam IS political. How can it not be when it prescribes a system of jurisprudence, warfare, taxation, governance, the realtionship of the individual to the state, etc etc there can be no separation of Church and state under Islam. Muslims owe allegience to this divinely mandated system above any loyalty to a temporal system of governance or a constitution.

That is why Islam is an ideology and NOT a religion. All IMHO obviously.

Who said anything about cherry picking a renaissance style of living to make Islam acceptable today? --- Not only have you accused me here of making an argument that I didn't make - you also use an argument that I did not make, to imply that I am a worst idiotic and at best an apoligist ---- its very petty

Muslims are an ethnic group - a man heading to a mosque on a saturday morning is a member of an ethnic group - he is not an ideology.

what are the basics of the ideology? - are you generalising that all muslims who don't believe that non muslims should be executed, are apostates? - IMO this is not true - extremists advocate this.

As I said before - If Muslims want to come to our country - they should adopt our culture instead of imposing their own.

Instead of the government namby pambying around with political correctness. They should be ensuring that Islam religion is been taught as oppossed to extreme groups brainwashing muslims with their ideology Muslims should also be ensuring that their followers are receiving the correct teachings about Islam

1. I agree, however, what constitutes a 'culture'?

2. Again though what are the correct teachings of Islam? I take it you mean the more modern verses, don't ask me to quote any, but there are some.

However, the problem I foresee with such an approach (not that I am disagreeing with the basic premise), is that Islam originated from the Middle East. Just as in any hierarchical situation, do you think Middle Eastern scholars are going to be too happy with a Western version of Islam being taught to followers?

Or the fact that this is what we only want 'British Muslims' to be taught?

Its a mine field and one I think a friend of mine summed up nicely:

'Fit in, OR F--k Off'!


Edited for spelling.

Sorry - having re-read my post it come across as a bit hostile. That wasn't my intent. I just get fed up with people defending something they obviously don't understand.

Nope Islam is an ideology not an ethnic group. Even pro-multicultural UK doesn't recognise "Muslim" as an ethnic group. Only Jews and Sikhs are classed as ethnic groups (presumably because they don't prosletise) though this is of course a nonsense.

Are a kosovan muslim, a Saudi Muslim and a Uzbek muslim going to the mosque all part of the same ethnic group?

The "basics of the ideology" are adherance to the divinely ordained manifesto as laid out in the Koran and Hadith. No muslims don't believe people of the book should be killed just subject to Dhimmitude if they don't convert. They do believe apostates should be killed though they'll dress it up with some reference to the time given to repent. (there is some divergence on whether females should be killed or just lashed).

If Islam only related to an individuals relationship with God the it would be just a religion. As it has a well developed prescriptive political, economic and legal system then it is IMHO an ideology.

I was in Milton Keynes on Friday and when I returned to my car found that all the cars had advertising leaflets on their windscreens... from the NF

On the one hand they say they are not racist but this leaflet was openly stating they want to start an immediate repatriation of non-white immigrants on a last in first out basis (if I remember rightly)

The NF and the BNP are two very different parties. The NF is NeoNazi and the BNP are a political movement whose sole aim is to prevent immigration and liberal non sense....the BNP stands for all Brits...white black asian....etc etc The BNP are the only socialist party that puts British workers first.

Dubs I vote BNP but do so having read their manifesto. I suggest you read it.



"Indigenous" certainly excludes Blacks and Asians.

If you aren't "indigenous" then you can't be a member - though you can be a part of the ethnic liason group.

Many people would regard that as racist.

The Hooded claw suggests we read the BNP manifesto, I suggest you should also read Edward Said's book Orientalism.
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popish_Plot

Paranoia about the enemy within is nothing new ( see papism); unchecked it can lead to Petrol bombs and pogroms ,The Jews of York burned to death anyone?,

Hartlepool hung a shipwrecked French monkey during the French Revolution, my grandmothers Dachsund was kicked to death in 1940 for being a German dog!
I could go on.

I agree that open debate is neccesary but starting from the position that all Muslims agree with a Medieval interpration of the Koran is unhelpful.

Also whilst history is being thrown at us consider the world today if T.E Lawrence's promises to the Arabs had been honoured by the French and British after WW1.

Its the same policy adopted by the far left Socialist Workers Party (SWP) in the eighties. They went out of the way to create social unrest and racial hatred to further their twisted views.
The far left SWP have very similiar view to the far right BNP. I think that the political spectrum is shaped like a circle with both the far left and right sharing the same common aims.

The BNP is a socialist party.

I know. Perhaps they should amalgamate with the SWP and form the British National Socialist Workers Party (BNSWP) and save on admin costs.

My reason for posting in this post in the first place - was to suggest that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush

Extremists believe that apostates should be killed but they base this on the hadith tradition rather than the Koran - in The Koran there are many verses that speak of the freedom to choose - and nowhere is it mentioned that apostates should be killed

I accept what you are saying with regards to your opinion about Islam being an ideology,
So Islam is a religion but also an ideology? -- If Muslims are free to practice the religious part of Islam - but abide by the laws of the land - Would that be ok?

YES, but it's not simple is it. We now have halal meat, a benefits systems that allows payments to more than one wife, a sharia banking system, sharia divorse, speakers calling people to prayer in leicester etc etc etc. Islam by nature seeks to destroy our freedoms in favour of theirs.

Yes there are such verses HOWEVER you should know that many of the early "milder" verses of the Koran "revealed" to Mohammed when the muslims were isolated and weak were later abrogated when the muslims became greater in number and militarily strong (sound familiar?).

All mainstream schools of Islamic law stipulate the penalty for apostacy is death (for men).

Also you cannot separate the "authentic Hadith" from the Koran as the hadith gives instruction on how to implement the commands of the Koran. The Hadith are effectively Gospels. Only very small sects such as the submitters reject the Hadith and seek to interperate the Koran on it's own. So many of the practical aspects of Islam are laid down in the Hadith that it's almost impossible to conceive of Islam without them.

The Hadith are pretty clear on what is to be done to Apostates...

Bukhari (52:260)

Bukhari (84:57) (apostates can't be burn't to death as this is what Allah's got reserved for them in hell)

Bukhari (89:271)

Bukhari is regarded as authentic by all Sunni muslims. Apostasy is punishable by death under sharia law. In many cases the family will murder the Apostate because the shame public apostacy would bring on the family.

I can't see how you can guarantee that they won't impose their ways when they become a majority.

I'm not suggesting Paranoia. The facts speak for themselves. There are very few parts of the Islamic world where infidels are allowed to worship openly, proslytise etc unmolested.

Except it isn't a medeival interpretation. It's a modern interpretation. This stuff is being taught in mosques up and down this country and worldwide.

I accept it might be "unhelpful" but it's true. Pointing out the truth is only "unhelpful" to those who don't want people to know what this ideology actually teaches.

Bukhari 4:269

Just fished said leaflet from the recycling to check it was from the NF which it was

It seems that I'd failed to distinguish them from the BNP so thanks for the explanation (excuse: It was friday evening on my way home and I only browsed it quickly...)

I reckon it's possible that many people would associate them with each other

Yeah it does sound familiar actually - There is one passage in the Koran that advocates killing pagans not apostates - At a time when Islam was weak - but this was spoken about a specific incident and time - not an ongiong rule

Militant Islamics are a big problem in this Country - but its the govt that are to blame - the same powers that drive home the message of political correctness and equality are the same powers that create division and untrust - they are the ones that are paving the way for a muslim state

I do agree that there are a great number of Islam extremists in this county - but the point that I keep trying to make (which just seems to get lost in this topic)
is that not all Muslims are extremists and they shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush.