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According to Halifax, average first-time buyers in Northern Ireland are paying £191K for a house.

What percentage of pay would would a first-time buyer mortgage be in Northern Ireland?

When you can answer that question. Have a look at my graph

Oh wait...


It's only happening in England and Wales.

Northern Ireland will be ok as our house prices are much, much more affordable. Our house prices may be higher, but we have much higher disposable incomes, as we are all so well paid here.

... oh wait... what do you mean we have lower incomes?... oh crap...

I've just done a few sums:
-assuming i pay the above stated average of £191k for a FTB house and put down 5% deposit, the percentage of my take home pay to service a 25yr mortgage at 6.5pc would be a touch over 97%. I almost think i'd gladly take a mortgage where only 35% of my pay was going towards it.

35% is very much a minimum figure imho.

The reason I say this is from experience as FTB we had been given a mortgage estimate from a lender last summer but in terms of what we can afford to what we would need, the amount was too low and still is. This has been the case for the last 8months and the initial amount has not improved even with these interest decreases in the financial market. The amount we worked out per month was around £1000 for the mortgage alone which is 35%+ in relation to our incomes! Therefore we want too know with some help in working out, what DO most FTB in different situations actually spend per month and does this work out to 35% on average.

What % of spend would a £120,000/£140,000/£160,000£180,000/£200,000 & £220,000 mortgage be for the following FTB on a deal with approx 6% interest;

- For a FTB single person* on an average NI wage of £15,000?
- For a FTB couple* on a combined average NI wage of £30,000 (double above)?

*with a typical 3% deposit (minimal for a FTB mortgage with a reasonable interest rate)

These are a good set of calculators:

http://img.thisismoney.co.uk/calculators/calcMortAfford.html

note the last one is 'ARE YOU OVER-STRETCHING'

so after you have worked out the monthly amount using the first calculator, you can work out the % spend of net wages thereafter

*SINGS* #Are you Helen in disguise#

Just done our sums over the weekend. We have both decided that we cannot afford to buy any time soon and probably will never own a house here in Northern Ireland for as long as the prices for FTB sit at £150,000+. £500 a month for rent is alot better than £1000 a month for a mortgage plus all the bills that go along with it.

Can anyone give us a quick run down on the procedures of renting as tenants including rights and other costs along with the monthly rental amount?

Yes, you can afford to buy - with part-ownership!

As to renting, it's usually a 12 month contract (sometimes 6 month), deposit = 1 month's rent, the landlord usually pays the rates (for furnished properties), and once in a while fixes something (but that's not guaranteed). That's it. Rights? What rightes? You have ob-li-ga-tions! But it's still much cheaper than buying.

One months rental as deposit and one months rent in advance
Two months notice to be given by landlord if he wishes to close contract early
Recent bank statements & copies of photo ID
You are responsible for cleaniness/upkeep of property
Landlord responsible for repairs
contents insurance advised
Rates are included in rental (unlike England)
You are responsible for TV licence/utility bills/heating costs
Deposit may be witheld if property needs cleaning/repairs on vacating
Establish whether property is furnished etc

Don't forget to negotiate if you are the only interested tenant - start watching suitable properties ASAP and how long they remain on the market

p.s. don't worry, affordable FTB property will be under 100k soon enough - nothing is selling

Well you know, from your own experience, house prices are no longer going up.

You never know, maybe, just maybe, some of the stuff we post on here will be right

So it is a good decission to wait and see if we are half as smart as md23040 thinks he is

I really doubt if you will ever regret renting short term, while this mess unfolds.

Edit: just to add my own personal experience (again). I was biding on a house last year which sold for £305K. The same house type opposite is currently on the market for £250K. So far (on paper) I have potentially saved myself £55K. And IMHO the crash has only started!

check out the "all about renting" board in the site

click back to main site and scroll down

Cheers all for the advice everyone. Any more on renting would be appreciated at this time (i.e. anyone recommend rental companies in E.Antrim, rental procedures for first timers etc.)

For any fellow new FTB reading this FTB related threads, heres a recap of our situation.......

We did consider buying, buying using co-ownership and renting since we started looking at properties back in May 2007. In reality we need to get a place of our own NOW and start buying furniture of our own but most importantly we need to see if we can live together before we get married. If we went out and successfully bought a place this month or in March, following a £1000+ approx repayment mortgage plus numerous bills including rates, we wouldnt be able to afford anything else from our wages in terms of new furniture, holidays, cars, clothes and even nights out or weekends away.

Co-ownership after careful consideration IS imho; a mugs game for FTB and the fact that there is a loophole where if house prices go up you buy back from the NEW market value and when prices go down and you want to purchase more % of the property, co-ownership implies that you must pay back from the ORIGINAL market value (confirmed today by financial advisor). FTB like ourselves contemplating this method for getting onto the ladder - you be warned!

Renting, as much as I have not wanted to use this route for getting a place over the last year (although my partner doesnt mind), has its perks as well as down points too. Yes - we may not own the 4 walls or roof over our head, Yes - we may be restricted in doing any modifications to the property and Yes - we may be 'paying someone elses mortgage' (along with 'renting is dead money') but in regards to all them statements, if most European countries use this method of living and you CAN and managably ENJOY your life to a better degree and still save some money for possibly buying in the future....I can see the sense in the method of renting and I hope that renting does turn out okay for us.

We shall probably decide on a 6month contract starting sometime soon to see how it goes and if after 6months we enjoy the conditions we are living in we can extend to 12months with a simple telephone call, am I right? We MAY even want to buy in the hosuing market at that time (late 2008)....but should house prices in our area stay the same as they have in EA windows as what they have been for the last 8months (same properties too), then I believe in 6months time, EA shall all have to be realistic and sell these £180,000-215,000 properties at the current time for realistic prices of £120,000 - £150,000 max for FTB to afford their first home, thus the beginning of the HOUSE PRICE CRASH IN NORTHERN IRELAND! (fingers crossed)

We will keep a eye on the local housing market and on these forums but in regards to us buying and seeking FTB advice......cheerio all........

Good luck and don't be a stranger to the site

Remember that house prices are illiquid, so once prices are in a negative trend it is hard for them 'to turn quickly' as was seen previously in S. E. England / London in 1990 for example*

As to what relative length of time they remain in the negative trend and to what extent the 'negative' is (i.e %) is the stuff of crystal balls.

However, due to this illiquid nature you can allways get some indication of where prices are using 'real HP data'; the next batch of results is due from Nationwide in mid-march relating to NI. So if you have not come back beforehand, make sure you comeback here in mid-march to check out what has happened in the last quarter (January to March).

*even if we are at a plateau at the moment (stagnant prices) then the same rules apply re; liquidity. So even if prices are stagnant, it serves your purpose to aquaint yourself with the market by looking at real data

my disclaimer to all of this is that using average data will give you an indication of the 'whole' market but not distinguish between locale and house type. To get a better idea of this see TDGTTS etc.

This is not advice and all IMHO of course (but you know that by now )

But there are - viewings!

The realistic price 6 months from now will be £360K-£430K. The market is reviving, dude!

http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...p;p=ECSBTWL0286

what about the high end of the market??
this type of thing could probably shift for 3x in London so will something like this be able to hold its value?

it looks really nice. one can dream eh??

Sorry - just to correct myself there, expect the next release of NI quarterly data from Nationwide in mid-April. Interestingly, it is worth pointing out the differences between looking at actual nominal data and House Price Indexes (which are usually based on asking prices). Whilst hpi's act as a good 'ready reckoner' of the market, they can sometimes be a bit erroneous due to their forecast type analysis compared to using actual data. For instance, are we really to believe that UK prices went up 3.2% in the last month?

Moostea posted a link to a graph using the Permanent TSB / ESRI House Price Index data (shown below)



Again, this acts as a good 'ready reckoner' but we await the nominal data to confirm this ( note the 'lag' between nominal data and indexes).

In terms of 'where we are' using the last release of Nationwide nominal data, the following graph shows NI (& all UK) at present vs. the Greater London / London data of the late 80's / early 90'



I posted this on the G. London comparison thread as well as a projection analysis using the G.London data (shown below):



but a word of warning on the last graph, it is the stuff of fiction and I have discussed this aspect and all of the necessary caveats on the related thread.

Interesting graphs - it does show just how much of a fall the people of NI should be bracing for. That rise was unprecedented and I suspect the fall will be too. Crazy!