Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Longer Than A Year?
House Price Crash forum > House Prices > All about renting
Londonvendor
Er, are there any? I'm starting to hear it mentioned that rentals on the private open market can be arranged for periods in excess of the usual 12-month maximum.

Can an AST run for longer, or can one for instance sign two of them back-to-back, so there's an extended but still fixed security of tenure - for tenants who will go through the palaver of moving their stuff in, and landlords who might prefer the reliability of income from a longer let over the flexibility of being able to juggle their portfolio at a whim?

Another intended STR here, with my house under offer and looking to exit the ownership market for a few years till I might take early retirement. Starting to despair a bit about the narrowness of the other options, though am equally unkeen on downsizing merely to buy a smaller flat that would get thumped harder in any crash.
quine
Londonvendor

A tenancy is an agreement between two parties and if you want a two year tenancy that may be a bonus to the landlord. We're in a two year tenancy agreement and managed to negotiate the price down as it suited the landlord too to have the property fully occupied. Us renters need to remember it's an agreement...so it should suit us as well as the other party...and (almost) everything is negotiable.
Remember if you take the 2 year tenancy your rental will be fixed - which might be a benefit - rather than a yearly agreement and then re-negotiating. Some greedy bstardos of landlords will try and put the rental up if you take a yearly and then want another contract for a further year.
Ologhai Jones
If one enters into such an agreement, does it prevent you being able to give a month's notice or the owner from giving two[1]?

I don't know much about legal matters at all, but I've heard on one or two occasions in the past that 'soft' contracts can't replace the laws of the land (in this case, for example, a tenant's right to give a month's notice then leave).

As I say, though, I know nothing about legal stuff really, so I'm on pretty shaky ground.

[1] As long as you're there for at least six months.
quine
OJ - our contract states we can give one month notice and the landlord two. It's all down to negotiation (and to be honest lots of the agents on the High Street don't know how to do this) (surprise surprise!). We managed to discuss and agree with our landlord and then go to the agency and tell them what we wanted written up. Remember...the client is paying for the contract to be written up.
Londonvendor
Thanks to respondents so far. As suggested, agents may be a stumbling block as they benefit from a faster churn. If my sale goes through I won't have that long to find somewhere, so remain a bit apprehensive!
kunekune
That kind of tenancy would make a huge difference to many tenants: as a parent of school-age children, I'm no longer in a position to move at will, at any time of year, just because the tenancy has finished and the LL wants to sell/change tenants.

BUT ... there is another massive stumbling block that others haven't mentioned. Suppose the LL has a mortgage on the property, a proper BTL mortgage. The bank is not going to permit a longer tenancy because it means that if LL stops paying, they are still bound by the tenancy and can't repossess the house. I'm surprised even 12 months is possible. Certainly, unless you have a mortgage-free LL, I don't think you - or we - are going to get the security that we need for renting to be a viable long-term option. Relying on pure luck isn't a great alternative.
gilf
QUOTE (kunekune @ Mar 12 2008, 10:00 PM) *
BUT ... there is another massive stumbling block that others haven't mentioned. Suppose the LL has a mortgage on the property, a proper BTL mortgage. The bank is not going to permit a longer tenancy because it means that if LL stops paying, they are still bound by the tenancy and can't repossess the house. I'm surprised even 12 months is possible. Certainly, unless you have a mortgage-free LL, I don't think you - or we - are going to get the security that we need for renting to be a viable long-term option. Relying on pure luck isn't a great alternative.


I don't think thats an issue at all, the mortgage company want the mortgage paid, they don't want to repossess houses without it being the last resort. If you have a 12 month agreement and the landlord doesn't pay, the mortgage company would just collect the rent directly from the tenant. The banks don't want to be getting in to the landlord business but I'm sure they wouldn't be too bothered with the odd 2-3 months.
Matt Henson
QUOTE (kunekune @ Mar 12 2008, 10:00 PM) *
That kind of tenancy would make a huge difference to many tenants: as a parent of school-age children, I'm no longer in a position to move at will, at any time of year, just because the tenancy has finished and the LL wants to sell/change tenants.

BUT ... there is another massive stumbling block that others haven't mentioned. Suppose the LL has a mortgage on the property, a proper BTL mortgage. The bank is not going to permit a longer tenancy because it means that if LL stops paying, they are still bound by the tenancy and can't repossess the house. I'm surprised even 12 months is possible. Certainly, unless you have a mortgage-free LL, I don't think you - or we - are going to get the security that we need for renting to be a viable long-term option. Relying on pure luck isn't a great alternative.


There is no reason what so ever why you can not agree to long term tenancies and the mortgage argument is nonsense, the 1988 Housing Act gives mortgage companies the right to possession in the event of default regardless and the courts are pretty sharp to oblige. (Ground 2 (a) the mortgagee is entitled to exercise a power of sale conferred on him by the mortgage or by section 101 of the Law of Property Act 1925) there seems to some view on this board that a mortgage needs to be a formal “buy to let” contract which is not true, you can take a regular mortgage and inform the company that you intend to let the property and like any mortgage if you default for more than three months they seek possession regardless of whether you let or are an owner occupier.

However....

If you sign up for the 2,3,4... year tenancy you are legally obliged to pay for the entire period of the tenancy so always include a break clause in the contract, say three/six month notice either way, secondly do not sign up for more than seven years, the protection afforded by the 1985 housing act (repairs and maintenance) cease to apply after seven years.

You are more likely to find such tenancies in rural areas particularly on country estates, big cities/towns tend to favour short term ones not least because the agents much more money renewing leases where as country agents make their money on house sales with letting being a side business to keep their big estate clients happy. Secondly the city/town market is more responsive to economic changes and long term tenancies stop the LL from taking advantage of rapid rent inflation.

Which leads to a second point, first try and agree a fixed price contract for the term, if you can not then agree increases up front, DO NOT agree to increases linked to RPI (retail price index) it is destined to fly off the scale in the next twelve months, if you do agree to variable increase say linked to inflation then agree to an annual cap say no more then 5% per year. Remember 5% year on year becomes nearly 11% in year three, on a £900 month rent that is nearly a £100 more!

The best bet if you can get it is a 24 month fixed price, although in the case of my current contract which is a 24 month its downside if the LL is a loony tune as mine is ;-)
agent46
Although, IIRC, the Housing Act 1988 doesn't make the position clear, 21 years is the maximum permissible term of an AST. Any longer term would be a "long lease", which are very different entities.

Additionally,

Any lease of more than 3 years must be executed by deed.

Any lease of 7 years or more must be registered.

If the lease is not executed by deed and/or registered, then it is not a legal lease, but is instead an equitable lease or a contract to create a lease. Equitable leases are not as "good" as legal and/or registered leases when it comes to resisting claims from mortgage companies where the borrowing has been secured on the property after the commencement of the lease.
ebear
My LA - Churchill's in Walthamstow actively pushed a two year AST on me and we could have got a three year one if we'd wanted... never had longer than a year at a time before though.
cartimandua51
QUOTE (Londonvendor @ Feb 3 2008, 09:18 PM) *
Er, are there any? I'm starting to hear it mentioned that rentals on the private open market can be arranged for periods in excess of the usual 12-month maximum.

Can an AST run for longer, or can one for instance sign two of them back-to-back, so there's an extended but still fixed security of tenure - for tenants who will go through the palaver of moving their stuff in, and landlords who might prefer the reliability of income from a longer let over the flexibility of being able to juggle their portfolio at a whim?


Sure, among the usual chorus of "evil scum landlords, have to move every 6 months, not security of tenure" it is often overlooked that many landlords would thank God fasting for a 2/3/4 year tenancy. The only reason they don't, usually, is (to quote Shakespeare) "There's no art To find the minds construction in the face. He was a gentleman on whom I built the an absolute trust" and the best appearing tenants can sometimes turn into nightmares. But if there's been no trouble for 6 months then most landlords would be happy to issue a new AST for 2 or 3 years or longer.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.