I was in St Albans this afternoon. I rarely go on Saturdays because of the crush and the market crowds.

The crowds were every bit as dense as usual, and the dept stores such as TK Maxx and the mall were really busy, almost Xmas-like busy.

No sign of recessionary restraint there unless they're all window shopping.

And a massive jam in the high street where M&S and BHS is.

The only clue to a recession was an unusually high number of taxis waiting on the rank there.

Same in Oxford today. Absolutely heaving.

Either people have become shopaholics for real, or they somehow think that they're not going to be economically affected. I don't know if they're right or deluded about that.

Unless it's one last hurrah on their plastic in what they perceive as a January sales bonanza and then a famine for retailers for the rest of the year?

One thing's for sure - if all who were out were spending then there is plenty of money for the retailers and inflation will go up and Brown or the BoE should take note. If people think the rates are going to be cut and their reaction is to spend like mad then it's just going to be more debt and more trouble. Rate cuts are to pay off existing debt, not make new debt, I'd have hoped.

Busy in Liverpool today, but nothing like xmas-style busy. Actually it was quite nice.

St Albans has a Residents' Weekend this weekend, so today's not typical....

Yes, thank you for that, but the shops were as busy as ever, almost like when I was there at Xmas. Would you say it was quieter last week and can you check next week for us if you're out and about thereabouts anyway?

Cambridge was exactly the same, felt like Christmas, so many people - couldn't walk in a straight line!

Well Buntingford was a ghost town last night

Wine bar shut

Three teenage girls in the Indian

Quarter of normal amount of customers in the Chinese takeaway

NO drunken tozzers coming home from the pub at 2am

It was pay day for a lot of people last week so perhaps that is why it was so busy.

Also just because people are out shopping doesn't mean they are shopaholics and using credit. To an extent you need to consider what people are buying as well - people still need to buy goods, whether it be clothing or food or whatever.

What is happening to the money markets and the economy doesn't actually effect most people day to day (untill they are out of work), they get paid, they spend and the next week will be the same.

Avoidance of a credit bust depends on people being forced to tighten their belts, otherwise they'll just spend forever and get themselves into uncontrollable unrepayable debt - as has already happened to many.

I have just been to Borehamwood - busy, although it is market day. No sign of any recession there either. Indeed Argos was out of stock on half of the items I checked (mobile phones mainly). I got the last browsing desk - it was every bit as busy as a busy Saturday.

Incidentally, the busker on his guitar in the walkway between the shopping area and street - he's one heck of a singer. Someone should sign him up, he's really good, never heard him over there before! (Unless he's miming and there's a hidden amp!)

St Albans has got a TK max now !!

Glad I moved; it is going downhill

When you cannot afford to heat your house and cannot afford gym membership, best thing to do is have a walk around to get warm or go and sit in the mall

The problem with TK Maxx is it seems things are a bit jumbled up. Must be deliberate to get people to walk around, like the supermarkets that put the mil at one end and the bread at the other, to make sure there's traffic to buy other less obvious items on the aisles in between.

But you could be right, people could just be out for boredom sake. Certainly as ever I ask myself, if everyone's in work then why are the roads and shops so busy? However, just one cup of coffee out costs more than leaving the heating on all afternoon I'd have thought.

you must have moved a while ago, TK Maxx has been there for about ...oooh... 7-8 years or so now...

but yes St Albans is just like most other town centres now, mobile phone shops every 20 metres etc.

Still good for the Wednesday market... cheap fruit and veg...

Okay, some weeks later back I am again.

PACKED TO THE RAFTERS in the centre this afternoon. If anything, even more people than last time.

You can hardly walk through the High St, it's like Xmas.

Queues a plenty at tills in many of the shops, footfall huge. Only shop that had low till queues was Woolworth.

GORDON - you've sent the wrong signals again. They're spending and spending on credit because they think you're going to cut rates on the never never and they don't realise inflation is wobbling into out of control territory, if not there already.

BoE Puppets - you've got to put the rates up NOW, you're just sending people into lots more debt if you don't. There's almost certainly going to be a recession anyway, why make people even more in-debt than necessary when it bites?

When a relative of mine realised he was onto a financial dive he was never going to pull up from (early 90's btw) he went out and borrowed and spent even more money and managed to double/triple the amount he eventually went bankrupt for. Had a good time apparently and went down for well over a million.

Theres a point there if you squint hard enough.

Well this post made me stop lurking and finally regsiter - ive been looking here for a couple of years now.

I live in St Albans (renting for a lot cheaper than i could possibly buy) and was in town both saturdays lording it up with all the money im saving (if you can call 10 quid in TK max lording it up).

Anyway, based on a sample of two (me and the missus) and given how much it costs to buy in St Albans, could it be all the home owners are stuck at home penniless whilst all the renters are out in town spending.

Thanks Dab )

and welcome to the forum, Sparky.

As you know, it's market day. Now I know markets are supposedly cheaper and that could be the lure to the crowds, but I watched people and I was not convinced they were out solely to pick up bargains at the market. I was around The Maltings and TK Maxx and other places (sniggering as I walk past Ann Summers) and I was also in Tchibo etc - heaving! Renters, STRs, whatever.

Don't let those interest rates go down, Mr Brown. (You're asking for real trouble if you don't put those IRs back up sharpish)

Even if people had no money and no credit, they'd still wander round the shops, as they know no better. It's just something to do, in a culture that has all but forgotten it once used to do other things that didn't involve retail.

For example, I like going to museums just to look at things, I don't expect to take the Elgin Marbles home. It's just what I find interesting and culturally stimulating. For some people, I assume looking at X-boxes or Wee phones or whatever gives much the same feeling.

They also go because they like to 'look at what they could have won' as Jim Bowen used to say. They can look at all the big tellies and cream-dream sofas and say 'oh, mebbe next year luv'. Tragic really.

Well, I agree people shop or window shop from boredom etc, however the carriers and excited "I've just bought something" high smiley faces suggests they're buying.

Instead of paying off debts they're spending. The question is, just what sacrifice does Brownie want the public to make just to keep the shopaholic-driven & HPI-driven economy going?

It's walking a tightrope at the moment.

Ealing & Wembley choca also today.

St Albans mobbed today, market again. So busy you have to wait to enter shops! You have to try to get a gap in the foot traffic until you can get past people into the door! This level of busy traffic was at the market area, though very busy in the rest too, browsers or lavish shoppers I don't know - minor queues at checkouts.

That violinist in the street opp M&S with the amp and his own CDs (I presume) - very talented!

LastB, There is no recession yet. Even if there was one, people don't roll over and die - they've still got to live!

lol
but my point is they're still spending, GB has sent the wrong signals, so they're spending and adding to their liabilities rather than using IR cuts to pay off existing debt - so rather than stimulate the economy to 'keep ticking on' somewhat, there seems to be people taking on ever more debt they won't find it easy to repay. That's not the sort of plan that is good for this country at all.

GB needs to up IRs, there has to be that pain now to stop worse pain later. If it isn't hurting it isn't working, is true enough.

I think it's very unlikely a good outcome is possible as things are at the moment, the debt is growing for people, debt from real unavoidable bills and also from discretionary purchases.

It just can't work like that.

Probably that violinist will be joined by a good few more in the near future!

(Fiddler on the hoof)

No, because not every home owner bought a property at today's high. Some bought when 3 bed semi's in the south were £60k and they haven't needed to remortgage.

My parents are a prime example, bought 1991 I believe, to rent an equivalent property would be £200-300 a month more than their mortgage.

Every shopping center I've been to in the last six months, be it an old market town like St Albans, or a bigger town such as Luton, Hemal, Stevenage, Watford etc ... all have been thronging with people buying buying buying, whatever day of the week.

Even to the point where parking in some of these places has become like its Christmas, everyone is out.

I went to Tokyo a number of times through the worst of the recession over there, and it never felt like a recession. It was always packed and expensive. In St Albans, the size of the town has increased substantially in recent years with no change to the infrastructure, so of course it will feel busy, its overdeveloped. Plus the traffic is so bad I guess most people can't be bothered to head further afield, it'd take up the whole day.

I was in John Lewis in Welwyn and it seemed incredibly quiet to me.

Thanks for the posts, interesting stuff.

I lived in or near St Albans for 16 years. I was shopping there Saturday, at the behest of my children seeking mothers' day pressies. OK, got there 3pm, and its a quiet time of year, but compared to how it used to be, it was really quiet. It used to be a pain walking past the stalls, but now not a problem. Quite a bit of turnover of shops which is normally a bad sign. And I parked first time in a car park I wouldn't normally bother with.