Almost everyone I know, and I am not exaggerating here, is talking about leaving England. Although certain factors like the usual 'home in the sun' dream come into play - the actual reasons behind the real desire to move are quite fundamental:

People can't see a future in this country for their children - because of:

The high cost of further education - student debt is the first millstone

Unaffordable housing - chances of settling down in the future and having a family is seen as remote - a massive mortgage is the second millstone

And, apart from the future for their children a lot of people are fed up with:

High levels of immigration - whether you like it or not - lots of people don't like high levels of immigration

Crime and the rise of the chavs

High taxation

Inability to save for pensions due to spending so much on housing

A general feeling that our country is in a terminal malaise with lots of anger and disenchantment

Canada is popular, the best part is Montreal imo if you're under 40. Great restaurants, nightlife, low low crime, tons to do, cheap housing for a cosmopolitan city, silly cheap outside the city, quality specs on condos etc. Good health care, good education 5 unis in the city, tons of clean parks, no dog shit etc. Don't want to paint a picture perfect place it has its problems like anywhere else, but it is better than anywhere here imo. And some parts in my eyes are perfection, the redevelopment of downtown near old montreal is soo clean and cool looking. We should invade it!!!

agreed.

canada sound nice. australia sounds good, but man. thats far away and expensive ive heard.
i cant see a future in the uk thats any good within the next 5-10 years at best.

best part of town, walk around at 2am and its dead quiet with nice lighting everywhere:

It's not just the middle class, even proles like myself are planning for an escape.


liar thief twit

The future for the under 30's of this country is fairly shit.

More and more immigration to make up for the lack of children. Who can afford children now, most can't even afford a studio flat? Got on a bus at Heathrow a few weeks ago and the driver couldn't understand a word I said, spoke no english at all.

Labour have been gradually making our economy less and less competitive in a time when we need to become more competitive against rising competition from the east. Massive increase in public sector workers offering little benefit and no 'real' growth to the economy - who is paying for them - you and I via increased taxes. And we're paying for thier final salary scheme pensions too when we've got to pay for ours.

Under 30's won't have HPI to provide security in the future, less inflation and changing demographics, they won't have decent pensions, aren't saving and no more final salary schemes and growing number of elderly will inevitably mean higher taxes in the future and all this against a background of growing job insecurity. On the upside there will be greater demand in the developing world for skills as the populations age so there will be more opportunities to move abroad.

In my experience a lot of people bottle out due to family and friends they have grown up with being left behind. Hard enough to get to see people 4 hours drive away let alone Cananda. The older you get the more difficult it is.

Many younger people are talking about leaving the UK. Heck, our 'Plan B' in the likely event prices do not return to trend is to take our growing deposit and leave the country. I don't think we'll need Plan B, or even if we're serious, but there you go.

Funnily enough, you mention immigration as a reason for people trying to become immigrants themselves. Aside from those who love adventure, most folk do not actually desire the uncertainty of becoming an immigrant, but say 'enough is enough' and leave.

Now, saying 'enough is enough' may be an excuse in some countries. Many immigrants are not persecuted, but have to endure corrupt banditry of thier governments acting as a complete barrier to progress for the everage Joe Bloggs. Some are perscuted, of course, or literally dodging bullets.

I don't think the British have quite the same licence - yet - to so quickly surrender their country to the albiet increasingly totalitarian tendencies of thje government's crony-capitalism, which combines rapid destruction of our age-old liberties with decreasing the quality of life for normal people. We should put up a little bit of a fight to reclaim the country, shouldn't we?

Heck it's our country, not Tony Blair's or Gordon Brown's, not George W Bush's, not whoever's got the most land or the most BTL flats, not remote EU plutocrats, not the MD that earns 50 times the salary of the shop floor workers and then whines to his lobby group about the minium wage. Ours.

Marina
I know exactly what you mean. As it happens, we're off in the summer and we don't intend coming back until our children have been educated. (They haven't even been conceived yet.)

Well said!

People have become numb in the security of their pampered lives and rising value of their personal bank (house) which they can draw money out of whenever they need a new consumable item.

Things will hopefully change to improve things for the under 30's, if they don't then expect more and more to leave and immigrants to fill the gap, it that's the kind of england those greedy BTL bast@rds want then they are welcome to it.

I am going to give it a couple of years, and in the unlikely event there hasn't been a HPC by then, and the future financial picture looks as bleak as it is now - then yes I think a move abroad has to be a more serious possibility.

I say that with sadness.

At the moment I'm actually pretty happy with my job and I value being close to my family at the moment, and both of these would have to change.

Shove off then.
The British always buy at the top and sell at the bottom. What you're doing is 'selling at the bottom' by getting out just when it's at it's worst.
I for one love this land with a passion and will stay to make it work. Buy 'shares' in Britain while they're cheap you fools!
This country is still magic and you'll regret it forever if you leave.
I respect you're decision but remember that wherever you go 'You' go too and if you can't be happy here then you'll probably not be happy abroad. Albeit with a tan and a freshly bandaged jelly-fish wound.

Being a recent "immigrant" myself (actually I'm a citizen but had never lived here before.) I have to say my lot her in Britain is pretty darned good at the moment. If that changes, I'm fortunate enough to be able to move to the US or to Australia. Now in my opinion Australia is in for a rougher economic ride than Britain in the near future, so if the UK really does go the way some people think I guess it'd be the US.

Bravo! A rare refreshing post!

Thanks gtrftb - when everyone's gone let's meet up and live like it's The Day of the Triffids. Except without the triffids or blindness.

Great post - good to glean a laugh (Jelly - fish) amongst all the group depression.

I know 2 couples fled to Aus, who have returned saying it was really hard to scrape a living.

I hate loads about the UK especially constant need to change things that have been fine for 1000 years & the liberal incompetence that swamps us (nursery teacher now tells me she has to know something of Duvalli even though no Asians in her class)!
On the other hand there is still a great deal to love about blighty.

I lift my spirits by just forgetting all the Human shite for a few hours - most of it at the end of the day is inconsequential and meaningless in the great scheme. Go climb an old Oak and just quietly observe without needing to be stimulated by petty man made inputs every second.

"What you're doing is 'selling at the bottom' by getting out just when it's at it's worst."

THIS IS far from the WORST.
Wait 2-3 years... then you will see something much Worse

Edit:

Ignore me, I should learn to read.


liar thief twit

Well said davidjgay.

My advice would be: don`t be a coward and run away; You go anywhere else, you will be considered an immigrant. In present globalisation, others do not mind anyone settling there; they tolerates you for the money. However, if conditions change, people can turn against you. You will feel what immigrants here are feeling now. Stay here and fight for your rights. Try to make this a better place. Dont surrender it to anyone.

There are actually lots of positive about living in the UK. You never appreciate the place you're from, but the UK is actually one of the best countries to live in. Everywhere has it's quirks. Being British still (IMO) opens a lot of doors for you.

Yes, but not always the door to your own home

The grass is always greener isn't it!!!

I think Blighty is OK all in all, the only problem is everyone is so negative!

toodle pip, What What, tally ho and all that. Don't come the rum cove on my tulips, you newbie oyster farmer, what?

I say. Woolly mammoth.

Bagsee the lighthouse then

But you think it's OK to migrate and increase some other country's immigation!
You don't make sense. Except that it seems quite clear that _you_ don't like immigrants. How you judge that "...lots of people..." agree with you, you don't explain.

p

It's a good idea not to count your chickens (so to speak).

I work with two Arab females - one is a Saudi Arabian woman, the other is Iraqi.

Both "escaped" custom, culture and misogyny in their respective countries by marrying first cousins who came to study in the west.

As soon as they got here, they divorced and have been living like fugitives ever since.

If I ever have a day when I feel f*uc$ed over by Blighty - just seeing those two centres me straight away. We have no idea how sh1te things are in the world.

If sun, Sangria and migration is all that you wish for, I reckon Blighty is better off without you, like it or loathe it - Blighty is a cultural mecca for millions, Canada, Oz and the US are boring, clone like and very very very boring. ( yes boring is mentioned twice)

Been there seen it, ate it and have the t shirt.

Far tooo many softy pufters on this site who whine and p1ss in the wind, no doubt they will be still whineing away after the crash and the rest of us have bought when the price is right.

Thanks for your concern, wise words, duly noted.

BTW, we've done very well out of living and working in the UK :-)
(It is possible to be both a bear and a winner.)

We are leaving for family and career reasons and we STR just in time (more luck than judgement - if I'd known about this site I would have sold in Q1 '04).

It just so happens to be good timing, IMO. I am not optimistic about the future for the UK, but I am generally an optimistic person (hence the assumed chickens!).

Well said. With an Australian wife, the pressure is always to move to a remote place, with a small population and a small vulnerable economy. We have a booming economy, the 4th largest in the world with fantastic opportunities for those willing to work hard and be an entrepreneur. If I make the money and invest it carefully my children and grandchildren can choose which public school to go to and can live where they want to and I'll buy a house in the sun. It takes only one person in one generation to enrich a family for a very,very long time. Old money here I come...

I am not happy with the way tis country is heading. Lack of affordable housing and the joke that is New Labour cooking up a real economic mess in the years to come.

However I do not wish to leave Blighty. I lived in Oz for a year and I could return (married to Aussie lady). I will not do this as the cost of living/housing there is no better once you are earning the lower Aussie wages. In fact the housing situation is even worse (buying) as banks want a higher deposit and interest rates are higher, add in the BTL boom and negative gearing in OZ and its a mess. As GTlondonFTB stated if the UK economy dies, the Aussie model will also, but probably worse.

I also love this country, the people, humour, countryside, food, decent TV/Radio, accesability to Europe. The problem at the moment is that we are ruled by shysters who are conning Joe Public into feeling weathy when all they are doing is digging their collective financial graves. My guess is the crash is pretty much here, I will just carry on saving and watching the housing market and HPC like a hawk and thanking myself for not buying into Browns big lie.

To agrre with Odaat, Australia is a very boring bland suburban wasteland. There is more to life than BBQs and beaches. My guess is that most posters on here would struggle with the cultural and intellectual limitations of Australia. I also doubt that your wifes/girlfriends would thank you for taking them to a land where there social life would likely consist of tupperware/quilt making/ scrapbooking parties. Britain may be a bum deal at the moment, but I will wait. If in 5 or so years its still as bad then maybe I will leave for Australia, but I somehow doubt it will come to that.

And only one to spend it all...

Joint 6th, actually.

http://biznewsfromhcilondon.net/more_ar.as...sid=379&nlid=64



So why are you a teacher?

Actually even us 'immigrants' are leaving or thinking of leaving. My brother left last month for Hong Kong and says he won't be back permanently for a long time, if ever. I have cousins who have left to make new lives in USA and Canada, as well as second generation immigrant friends eg asian,cypriot,turkish etc who have done likewise. All were born and educated in UK,lived in metropolitan areas and ironically one of the reasons they gave for leaving was high levels of immigration. Personally, I don't agree with them but the gist of their argument was that they felt less secure about their futures because of this ie any backlash against immigration will affect them and also the high levels of non-english speaking kids in urban schools will have an adverse impact upon the education of their kids.

You're FOS, seriously have you even been to these places? Canada; If you can't find fun in Montreal, you might as well have a lobotomy and watch Trisha all day and pay some hog to cut your overgrown toenails. BC is also great for outdoor pursuits. Canada is nothing like the US really, their views and intelligence are about as similar to each other as fish n chips is to foie gras. It's also nothing like OZ, pretty thick lot there, half is desert. My vote goes to Montreal, c'est un melange.

As a native of Montreal and resident of BC, I have to say, and no offence intended George, I despise all things Disney. Cultural Rapists of the highest degree. On the other points, I personally agree with you, but everyone is different so I make no judgements on personal taste and what some find boring, I might find otherwise. Having said that, I did find the UK to be a fascinating place but as someone once said to me, "This world is filled with beautiful places."

Did you edit out the Disney bit George?

Keep remembering what Tony Blair tells you & the story of Dick Whittington, both are true is you close your eyes and believe hard enough

I edited that part. Disney is great man, OK i might not live there, but its still a great place, don't know how you can diss it really but each to their own.

George 'may quit Britain'

George Michael says he is ready to leave Britain, as he finds it a 'depressing' country.

Pop star George Michael has made up his mind to leave his homes in England and America for living in Canada because he is extremely disappointed with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his government.

"For the first time ever I can see myself not living in England simply because of the politics of the place and how depressing it is," rate the music quoted George as saying.

"I love Canada. Vancouver is on of the places I've told people I could move to. People are just so friendly there. I love Stanley Park, the way you can go to the top of it and see the whole city. You hear people from Vancouver talking about their own town with real enthusiasm.

There's just something about Canada I really like. It's not America. There are things about American culture that don't go with me, really. You don't have as many loonies per square foot in Canada," added the 40-year-old music sensation. (ANI)

Vancouver's Westend (near Stanley Park) is a gay and lesbian stronghold. Attitudes towards people with alternative lifestyles is much more open in Canada (BC in particular) than the US, much more.

I have 3 kids. Maybe its just because I have been too often.

Get on the big rides lol, they're building 3 more parks man

I've already left the UK and am temporarily (or permanently, who knows?) living in New York. Personally I think the UK offers a shocking quality of life but unfortunately you have to take a somewhat selfless view on where you live.

For example, touch wood both my parents are alive and well but I couldn't contemplate living in say Australia if one of them was to fall ill for example. It's easy to deride the UK (and I do it with the best of them), but unfortunately it's there I was born and brought up and I expect to return there at some point.

Moreover, the visa administration involved with trying to move permanently to a foreign country is overwhelming, unless you marry a local. It is interesting to observe just how many illegal immigrants live and work in New York seemingly blessedly free of any oversight, yet to get a green card as a skilled educated worker can take three years and $30k in legal fees. Sometimes you wonder if it's worth all that aggravation just to avoid grey skies and chavs.

It is definitely an easier decision if you don't have to go through the visa process.

Where in NY do you live? I worked in Midtown for a while, commuted in from Connecticut. NY is a very immigrant city. Not many people spend there lives there, though.

[When I read that I exploded with laughter and two people came into my office to see what was going on]


I'll join you, with a bucket of seawater, just to be sure.

Actually in a funny way I disagree. I have full residency rights in 3 countries and in some ways this makes it harder as you are constantly wondering in which one you should be in.

At least going through an arduos visa process should mean you've made a firm decision.

Don't get me wrong, I am VERY lucky, I'm just making the point that sometimes so much choice can be a burden.

I think it is a good idea to go and work abroad for some time. It helps you know whats important to you and your priorities.
But Britain whatever its faults is home, and a fun place. We are a bunch of whiners, but I think the reason we put up with so much is there so many good things about this country that we take for granted.

I worked in the USA for a while, and it was a great experience and stunning great outdoors. The USA WAS a great place, until Bush f*&ked it up after sep 11th. Well actually it was always difficult for immigrants. Its all very well being on a temp visa for skilled workers, getting a green card is entirely another matter.

It is a great shame what has happened to the USA, retreating in on itself and being gripped by paranoia. It will take a long time and need a lot repairing, before the US can again be an attractive place for immigrants.

A few years ago I was working in software in Colorado. It was the dot-com boom years. Clinton was in charge. Jay Leno took the mick out of him daily on The Tonight Show. Some of my Indian colleagues thought that was great that 1) the president could have the mick taken out of him and 2) Clinton thought it was funny too. Nowadays, it is hard to imagine this. The attitude has changed completely. You can't say things anymore. You're not meant to question the war etc...

Do not underestimate the effect of this on Canada. Canada feels a long way from civilisation! In the UK we are surrounded by European countries. Canada now has this dodgy dangerous unpredictable neighbour to the south, and no-one else.

I lived in Canada a while after the USA. It was a big disappointment. There are swarms of qualified people chasing few white collar jobs. Many Canadians are boring , humourless, selfish, spoilt. They whinge more than us. Always going on about how bad Americans are. Well why don't Canadians get a culture of their own? One gets tired of Canadians saying how great Canada is when its not. At least plenty of Brits and Yanks can see the flaws in their own countries. If you go to Canada and take the mick they take massive offence. At least the Yanks take the mick back and call you a "limey" and generally have a load of friendly banter.

Montreal is a good place. I think it is the ONLY good city in Canada. But a lot of what makes it good is its European-ness.
Calgary is second best and great location near rockies, but.... there's something missing.
Vancouver is a sh*tehole. It has the 2cnd highest crime in N America after Miami. It is pretensious and fake. You want to talk about whingers and things not working? Vancouver had a bus strike for 4 months before anyone could sort it out! It looks beautiful on the surface but is ugly underneath. 50 women were murdered before they finally arrested this pig farmer. Seriously weird and creepy things go on and people brush it under the carpet because Vancouver "looks" so nice. There is a lot of drug addiction and also hidden racial tension in that city. Prices of houses are sky high there too.

If anyone's going to Canada, take my advice and go to Calgary where there's sunshine, mountains and jobs. Don't go to Vancouver where its rain, no jobs, and whingers. Or go to Montreal. But hey, if Montreal's so good, why not go to France instead and stay in touch with family. Ryanair's a lot easier and cheaper than Air Canada......

I went to Calgary a few weeks ago. Flying visit, but it looked very strange to my London eyes. They had just come out of a cold snap (-31 degrees in the day) and the city looked remarkably like one of those modern French alpine ski resorts - all concrete skyscrapers and planned layout.
To shopping when it's cold people get in their huge trucks, drive into town and go into a 'Parkade', then walk in heated tubes between all the shops, all at first floor level.
It seemed to be like the Middle East - you avoid going out into the open air in the 'off season' because the environment is so hostile.

I'm sure it has a lot to recommend it (skiing in the Rockies etc) but I'd only want to visit.

I too am fed up with Britain.

I am surrounded by bums (chavs?) who have more disposable income than me and better housing than me - and have done nothing to deserve it. Everytime I look at my payslip a huge chunk has been taken for tax which no doubt pays for these bums to buy more cigarettes and disposable nappies for their babies which they had when they were 14 years old. As soon as I am professionally qualified (3-4 years) I will more than likely be moving overseas (have US (job offer would have to be very good), Canada, Hong Kong in my head at the moment) and taking my sizeable house deposit with me. If the market has bottomed out by then I may BTL a property here before moving back into it in 10-15 years. Who knows.

I am reasonably young and have no family so I suppose I have no real reason to stay regardless.

Sounds like you're a material person who likes his material goods.

Frankly with an attitude like that we're better off without you. Why not leave today?