http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=76

Christ. I can't believe some of what I read on there.

Here are a couple of sample quotes:

"Yes it is my partner who smokes, he's a truck driver at the moment and is out from as early as 3am in the morning to all hours of an evening! Sometimes smoking is all that keeps him on the ball. I know it's not much of an excuse - but cutting the nicotine completely out of his system has caused really bad withdrawal problems previously. We have looked at getting him patches, but they cost £15 a week so it's actually cheaper for him to smoke!"

"I know this seems really stupid/pathetic/idiotic, but would it make sense if I said that the sky and internet are the only things we have for "us" otherwise I think we would both feel we were working for absolutely nothing. Like I say, I know it seems stupid, but that's how it feels to us. *shrugs* if it comes down to it it will be something for us to look at."

There was another one about how they had nothing left at the end of the month and had cut back everything possible, yet the list of costs included 2 take-aways (@ £8 each).

That board is enough to give you nightmares!

I don't see any of the really big debtors posting on that forum. I bet half the population of the country including Tony and Cherie have some horror story about their debts to post on that board if they had the guts to be honest.

It must be wonderful to be so perfect that you can afford to be so patronising about people who are in debt. Since when has spending £16 a month on takeaways been a cardinal sin? There are some horribly judgemental people in this world.

that'll teach them not to save.
bluelady - dont you know takeaways are for the elite.?

It's a sin (against your own security) if you can't afford it. People in the position of having no money have to make sacrifices, £16 per month probably sounds like peanuts to most of the people reading and I wouldn't begrudge any of you your takeaways, but for those that don't have that to spare, they shouldn't spend it!

And I'm not preaching btw, I've been in the position where £8 represented my weekly food budget. And I didn't have takeaway until I was back on my feet.

Fred take aways WILL be for the elite when the sh1t hits the fan.

I thought this guide to 'Limitations' on how long creditors can chase debtors was useful. It appears to be 6 years in most debt cases, 12 years with mortgage debt.

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_...eet_25.php3#oft

well having your food prepared for you always used to be the preserve of the the elite!!

To people of my parents' generation (they're both 70) takeaway food is considered a real extravagance!
In the old days fish and chips was the only takeaway food and it was ridiculously cheap even in relation to their earnings........
Even i remember as a 9yo cub scout in 1972 getting fish and chips for 13 pence!
(4p for the chips and 9p for the fish)....That's about £1.30 in today's money!

I don't think people are very responsible these days.

You are only in debt because you have made choices that have put you in debt.

Even if you are unemployed, never had a job, or are sick then you are provided for with a low level of income, and housing.

If you budget and only spend what you can afford then debt is not going to happen to you....

If you can afford £16 a month for takeaways then fine, if you can't then don't go spending it.

This dosen't only apply to really *poor* people, but also to foolish people who MEW or take credit to buy a new BMW.... if you can't afford it don't buy it. I wouldn't.


I was in court last year for a driving offence (Slap on wrist, and a bit of a ban) and had to fill in one of the courts 'means testing' forms so that they can decide on an appropriate fine.

Included in weekly/monthly outgoings is a section for Fags, Booze and Lottery Tickets. Since when were these necessities??

That site scares me. It should be compulsory reading for everyone. That's the sort of mess you get into if you **ss away your money on non essential stuff and have no savings for hard times. Excluding houses, if you have to borrow for it then you shouldn't be buying it in the first place.

Where's Alvin Hall these days?

You lot really have no compassion or understanding at all, do you? A lot of people get into debt through unemployment or ill health, neither of which is any fault of their own.

I can only assume you're all very young and have no first hand knowledge of hard times, one of the benefits of getting older is an increase in tolerance and a decrease in judgementalism.

Well said. Marry me!

I think it's fair to sum up the mood on this site as:

"If you're poor then you're stupid"

Which is why there is so much animosity to anyone who has benefited throug HPI. Because that's so unfair. How dare a thick house buyer be richer (and therefore more cleverer) than me.

Tulip, if I wasn't already spoken for, I might just consider it!

I agree with Bluelady on this one (did I just say that?)

What a snide bunch to dictate to ‘the poor’ that a twice a month £8 extravagence is a no no.

Non-FTBer is 101% wrong when he suggests that if you budget you can avoid debt. There’s millions that do not earn anything like a living wage - exasserbated by the present housing boom - yet do not qualify for social housing. If you earn 700 a month after tax and the cheapest, filthiest accomodation in the area is a 350 a month bedsit (now typical in much of the South) then can you live on the remaining £350?

Well, yes, you can, assuming you are not already in debt. Kind of. I’ve done this in the past. But, heck, you have to be massively innovative, disiplined, and adopt an attitude able to act as a barrier against depression. It’s not enough to simply avoid silly liitle extravagances like the odd Sag Aloo, but to utterly the reject the prevailing value system of an entire social and politcal system, reasss your actual needs independently, and create a battle plan for living. It’s doable, but I’d not judge anyone for failing. It’s difficult, heady stuff - not just about counting pennies, but psychological, spiritual, political.

It’s part of the reason I started by low cost living newsletter, just to make the rather sorry situation an artform, a laugh, a sport, a way of separating low-budget, simple living, which is can be immensely positive, from ‘being poor’ or ‘in poverty’, which is crap.

yes, this is exactly how I and my friends feel!

Being educated about money and savings and being educated per se are completely different things.

Most of these poor suckers simply need to be pointed to somewhere like moneysaving expert for some sound advice on how to save.

For example, I picked up on a tip from that site that'll help me save a few more pounds:

threaten to leave my mobile provider

get a spanking new handset for free

sell it on e-bay!

£200 for a phone call...nice.

My own take (FWIW) is that some posters (Dr Bubb, Charlie the Tramp come to mind) have been round long enough to have the wisdom to see what can go wrong and how much misery this can cause. Heed their warnings.

It is about wisdom, not intelligence

This site is not primarily about making millions.

If that is you goal I think you will find lots of interesting information on eg Motley Fool. However it hopefully provides some useful information that can rebut a lot of the BULLSIHT spewed out by the VI's.

I don't have any animosity to anyone who has benefitted through the increase in value of their house (at least if they've been honest).

However I DON'T want people, particularly FTB's, falling into the trap of thinking buying property is a one way bet. Basically being conned out of hard earned money. Stuck in poverty for many years to come.

This WILL all end in tears.

unemployment and ill health are obvious reasons for compassion, but I would'nt underestimate the power of peer pressure

I'm not saying its right, simply pointing out that peer pressure is a powerful emotion (backed up by a lot of advertising)

If all your friends have BMW's, Plasma's etc the pressure is ON

They earn the same as you but they have twice as many goodies

How did they get so much - MEW'ed, Credit Cards

If you are prudent, sensible you will let them get on with it, but a lot of people may be a bit weaker than you

I don't think these people need compassion, but a bit of understanding may be in order?

I have personal experience of it going both ways in old age. Some oldf*rts are more judgemental as they age, some become less so.

I hope I can place myself in the latter.

As long as you don't feel that I have called you and old f*rt!

Hey where have you been? Decent people have been supporting dross like that for decades. The poor soles who can only afford to go to Burger bars for their dinner and have the full sky package . Its Bl%%$y annoying.