Hi Folks,

I'm converting my relatively small ISA from rapidly depreciating BOE notes into real money. Can anyone with experience of buying gold tell me if Bullionvault is a reputable company. I would hold physical gold, except the premium to be paid is a little too high IMHO.

I'm sick of saving my hard earned money and getting less in an ISA than real world inflation of 8 - 12% IMO.

Cheers

Jamie

The last I heard no one from this board had actually gone to the vault that Bullion Vault uses and asked to be given their physical allocated gold so they could take it away. Other than that I apparently own a small amount but I have not as yet ever sold any and so don't really, really know for sure. In theory, as it is an allocated account, if Bullion Vault goes bust then the companies creditors do not have a right to your gold. You may need to go and arrange a new place to store it but it should, in theory, remain yours. The actual vault itself is not operated by Bullion Vault either and so I guess Via Mat, who do operate/own(?) the vault would not let any creditors in. Check out the Bullion Vault info page for more info:

http://www.bullionvault.com/help/?FAQs/FAQs_vaulting.html

Do yourself a favour. Pay watever premium and get britannias or sovereigns.

Agree, get the asset in your hand otherwise a default can make it vanish.

Do you think old Sovereigns and Britannias will be better than mint condition Krugerrands or Maples?

Doubt it. Britannias seem to go at quite a premium. It almost as if their value is made up of two components: 1) the gold content 2) the 'collectability' or whatever you want to call it.

I can't see the 2nd component of their value holding up in a recession. I'm sticking with Maples.

They are exempt from UK capital gain tax because they are UK legal tender. Other non-uk coins are not UK legal tender hence are subject to UK capital gain tax.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cg4manual/CG78307.htm
CG78307 - Currency: coins: legal tender

Coins are to be regarded as currency only if they are legal tender at the time of their acquisition or disposal. Coins which are currency but not sterling, for example Krugerrands, are chargeable assets.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cg4manual/CG78308.htm
CG78308 - Currency: coins: legal tender

Sovereigns minted in 1837 and later years and Britannia gold coins are currency but, like all sterling currency, are exempt because of TCGA92/S21 (1)(B).

2nd component of their value is that they are UK legal tender and therefore exempt from UK capital gain tax.

See previous post.

Ideally, you want to obtain the gold without the gov't knowing anyway. Point taken though.

Good point. That capital gains tax would be quite a hefty amount after hyperinflation kicks in.

Thanks for the heads up.

Again good point. i'm not planning on declaring what gold I buy and sell.

However, the government are going to want to know when the price is $5000 per ounce exactly who is trading.

***edit*** aren't the government already wanting people to declare amount over a certain value anyway? wasn't there also a story about jewellers and coin dealers being made to report transactions?

hmmm

When it gets that bad, I'm afraid we may find that laws pertaining to gold will change somewhat! so basing your investment stratagies around todays laws could hit you with a nasty surprise.

Are these coins pure gold?

I'm sure I saw something labelled as sovereign in a gold shop today but listed as 9 carats?

Can someone elaborate please?

Not sure about sovereigns but Krugerrands and Maples both contain exactly 1 ounce of 24 carat gold. However, the Krugerrands have an additional % of copper to provide durability, meaning the entire coin is actually classed as 22 carat.

The Maples are smaller but completely pure. (from what i understand.)

I thought Krugerands were 100% gold?

EDIT Forget it- I thought 24 carat was a fraction of gold- its not- sorry chaps

Where are the best place to purchase these coins from?

Are there any cheap reputable dealerships around?

maples are 99.99%
krugs, eagles and sovs are 22c (ie 22/24)

Full sovereigns are the same as krugerrands but require 4 to make a troy ounce.

Are there any price advantages to buying say Krugers over Soveriegn giving that South Africa has gold mines and the UK very little in comparison?

A sov is 0.2354 of a troy ounce - so four of them does not quite equal a krug.

No. Gold is around £400 an ounce at the moment. You can buy a full sovereign anywhere for about £90 at the moment which means you can get an ounce of gold for around £360. A Krugerrand sells around £395. Will gold go up or down in value ? nobody knows. I think it will but what do I know.

The difference is not justified by the price of the the more expensive Krug

I've just did a bit of digging myself and taxfreegold.co.uk suggests that all bullion coins are tax free. i.e. Kruggers etc are tax free too? They also sting you 7.5 percent above the price of gold if buying small quantities. Ouch. Wonder how much they buy them back for? Anyone got any recommendations of where to


So if I go buy a bar of gold and sell it for 1000 pounds more after april of next year, I'll pay £180 tax? Any other ways to avoid tax?

Gold and silver coins are becoming harder to get hold of.

APMEX has silver (large quantaties 500+ oz) delivery at January 8th (was stock), and price of Kruggers at $30 over spot (was 10).

And if I buy coins I pay no tax if they go up, and if I buy a bar and make a profit I do? Sounds strange to me.

They're talking about VAT here. Due to EU law, all investment gold is VAT free on purchase, coin/bar whatever.

The CGT exemption appears to be UK specific legislation applying to sterling coins only.



No, you'll only be liable for CGT if you exceed your CGT allowance of approx £9k capital gain in a year on non sterling coins.

Reputable dealers I've used are Chards (taxfreegold), ATS Bullion and Bairds (goldline.co.uk). If you haven't bought gold before go through dealers until you are confident after DYOR.

Hi all,

just to clarify re. gold content of gold coins, all 1oz gold coins contain exactly one ounce of fine gold (aka 24 carat or four nines gold).

Some 1oz coins contain only one ounce of pure gold and nothing else, like the Canadian Maple leaf or the Chinese Panda). Consequently these coins are a bright yellow in colour and are more suceptible to scratching and denting. These types of coins weigh exactly 1oz or 31.1035g.

Some 1oz coins contain one ounce of pure gold, plus another base metal (eg copper in Krugerrands - gives them a coppery colour) that makes them a bit more durable. These coins weigh 33.939g, slightly more than 1oz.

cgnao is right in that currently gold sovereigns and britannias are cgt exempt.

All gold bought in the UK is VAT free (unlike silver and platinum which are classed as industrial metals and therefor incur VAT).

Hope this helps.

Assuming I wanted to buy a few sovs it seems the age and design add a premium.

Reading this it seems to be sensible to buy the newer less sought after ones:
http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/wesellsovereigns.html

Is there more to it or is the extra price simply a collectors tax?

Cheers