Background:

I moved into a tenency prior to the deposit scheme and as such my landlord holds my deposit. When we moved in the landlord provided us with a poorly hand-written inventory which had been compiled by the landlord, which was inaccurate to say the least. The house needed a good clean and the paintwork etc was so poor that I sought permision to repaint several of the rooms (which was given and, which I subsiquently did). The inventory was so inaccurate that I returned it, unsigned and asked for it to be updated so it accuratly reflected the state of the property. However, another inventory was not forthcoming and in the end it was forgotten about.

Current situation:

The letting agent has just contacted me to let me know that the landlord intends to keep the ENTIRE deposit (£1500). Enclosed is a checkout report (another hand written work of fiction from the landlord) that iether points out things that were in the state they were already in when we moved in (flaking paint for example on some of the woodwork) or critisises the the cleaning of the house. There are also references to the gardens, which in my opinion are in a better condition that when we moved in. There is also a reference to 'loads of cables hanging inn living room, looks untidy, which refer to the sky installation that I paid for after recieving permision to have put in. Finally, they are critisising the painting we did. saying it needs redoing in the rooms I painted (including the reference paint not done properly!).

Quite frankly the majority of the things on this "checkout report" fall under wear and tear or their apparant sudden found interest in the cleaning of the house (Completely unjustifiable as I spent two days cleaning the house before we left.)

In fairness the exterior of the windows are dirty, but the poor weather prevented me from doing anything about that.

Finally, I am also getting stung for a 'brocken door handle, which had been braised to repair it before I moved in and broke again just before we left, a broken coat hook, marks on already marked kitchen floor tiles (i.e. the same marks as when we moved in) a warped gate, (same as before) and an unswept drive. Oh, and 3 light bulbs which went the week we moved.

Given that I did not sign the inventory were does that leave us with regrds to persuing the deposit?

Again, I did not sign the inventory because of the state of many of these things and appart from the cleanning of the windows there is little wrong with the house.

Any advice would be appreciated because £1500 is a lot of money.

I would also point out that the landlord has had frequent access to the house throughout the tenancy and at no point did they make these critisisms or ask for anything to be done. Funny that.

PS: There is already a new tennent in the house so this makes disputing even harder for us.

Just found out that the letting agent has a clause that says "failure to return the inventory, signed with any amendments within 7 days will constitute acceptance of the inventory"

We did reply to the agents telling them that we disagreed with the inventory, but I have no proof. However, many of the areas (such as walls and skirting boards) that they are complaining about are mentioned in inventory.

Where do I stand?

Really could do with some help as this is stressing both of us out.

I am really, really sorry to read about this. We have had to take ALL our previous LL's to the small claims court. So far it has worked very well although the first one was nerve-wreaking.

Because you have so little proof in the end it will come down to which one of you is believed in the small claims court. My experience has been that the bit in the contract about not signing and not returning the inventory = acceptance didn't stand up in court.

There is no reason why the court will not take your side as you did not sign the inventory. The LL has no right to take your deposit as most of the "damage" is (as you said) wear and tear.

Write to your LL and send the letter as registered. Give him a period of time to pay the deposit back in. I usually say 10 days or 2 weeks. Don't waste your time with long diatribes or arguments on paper. Ask him to explain in writing if he does not intend to pay up.

When he doesn't pay, write to him again and say that you intend to take the matter to the small claims court. Explain that he will be liable for the extra charges. Show him that you mean business. Allow for a certain period of time and let him know what that is.

Then start the small claims process. It has worked really well for me. Some LL's pay up before that date and most do not even show up on the day.

Good luck! Don't let it spoil your Xmas. It's really unfair.

Kindest regards,

Thanks Flopsy. I was going to write back offering a £250 as a token of good will for general use as they see fit, without actually admitting any fault. I also have a freind who has a friend who works as a letting agent so am awaiting some advice from them. I'll wait till he gets in touch tomorrow and then consider my options.

Good luck Haunted, haven't got much to add because I think you are getting the best advice from Flopsy.
Keep posting to let us know how you are getting on. Maybe drop by Citizens Advice.

Question, is £1500 covered in the small claims court?

You can claim up to £5,000 this way.

Thanks planner. Just spoken to letting agent who admits he is 'speachless' at the claims and is prepared to give a personal reference (at a a cost no doubt). Even he has advised I go to the CAB as a first step and did not discount the SCC. For once I think he is actually on my side.

It is in England, but its less in Scotland. Last I heard it was just £750, but there was talk of raising it to £3000 or more.

The small claims court actually goes up to £15,000 but the fast track process is up to £5000, you can not claim legal fees (money you spent on a solicitor) but you can claim costs and damages, i.e. court fee (£80) and lost income for attending court. If Scotland is less then it will only be the fast track process

Download the OFT report http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources...consumer/oft356 for an opinion of the judges guidelines.

The real onus of the the OFT guidelines is the LL opinion is not final and the burden of proof falls on them.

If you didn't sign the inventory the LL has no legal recourse. Anything he claims you have damaged, you could claim was like that when you moved in, and there's no proof that you did the alleged damage because there's no inventory detailing the state of the property when you moved in. The law is on your side in this instance: you're innocent until proven guilty, and without a signed inventory the LL has no way to prove you are guilty.

If the LL wants to keep some of your deposit (which he isn't entitled to in this case) he has to provide you with receipts for every penny he spends on doing up the property. These have to be proper receipts from the people who actually did the work, not handwritten receipts from the LL. The LL cannot charge you for any work (e.g. cleaning) that he does himself, he can only charge you the exact amount he was charged by the external contractor who did the job. This extends to him having to provide you with a till receipt for lightbulbs he bought etc. I'd be very surprised if he can provide receipts totalling exactly £1500!

Write to your LL recorded delivery, explaining that you would like your deposit returned immediately as:
a)You have not done the alleged damage, and without a signed inventory he has no way to prove the property was not in that condition when you moved in
b)He has not provided you with receipts for the amount he claims it has cost to repair the alleged damage, therefore you assume he has not spent anything

State that if he does not return the deposit within, say, 14 days, you will be taking him to the small claims court without further consultation. Don't worry if he doesn't cough up immediately, he will as soon as the court summons lands on his doormat. Sometimes these people need to realise you mean business before they will pay up, they'll assume you're bluffing and hope you'll drop it, but when that court summons arrives he won't know how fast to give you the cash.

ETA: The bit about the inventory being classed as accepted if not returned within 7 days is rubbish, it won't stand up in court. If you didn't sign it, you didn't sign it!

Quick update:

I have since sent two letters to the LLs as recommended by Shelter. These letters show the Judge that you have tried to resolve the situation in a reasonable manner before going to the SCC (small claims court). The first letter was a polite but firm request for the return of the deposit, the second was more of an ultimatum regarding the return with some supporting facts and details of the process and the LLs obligations. I am happy to post this if anyone is interested as it may be useful to others.

I have yet to receive any response (as anticipated) and will be looking to instigate SCC action at the end of the month. On the bright side the letting agent actually said to me "They are taking the p1ss really and you will have no problems in the SCC". He also told me that they chose to opt out of the tenancy deposit protection scheme (or whatever its called) so the new tenants have the same shonkey hand written inventory we had.

My word, they are an exciting couple really! I should imagine that the courts will crucify them if the new tenants have a dispute.

I'd like to see the letter as I may be going down that route mate. if you don't want to post them up can you PM me and I'll send you my email addy

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but I would be very grateful for any advice.
My daughter has just paid the deposit on a house share yesterday.
Today she received the offer of her dream job, this was totally unexpected as the firm last contacted her a year ago.
She has told the landlord that she will not be taking up the tenancy(phone call),no agreement was signed, She has a receipt for the £350 deposit.
The landlord has said she can't have the deposit money back as he has spent it on furniture and he has turned away other applicants for the room.
As I see it even though she hasn't signed the agreement she should be entitled to the deposit back less his administration costs, am I correct. She's just 18 and so if I'm right I'll pack her off to the CAB for some help.
Thanks loads in anticipation.

Correct no agreement is in place because no contract has been signed. What the LL should have done was got your daughter to have signed the contract when he took the deposit. So you are fully entitled to all of the deposit back minus his administration costs provided he can prove he has carried out the said administration, ie credit check etc. If he hasnt even done this they can also get some of the admin costs back.

Write to him recorded delivery giving him 14 days to return the deposit as cleared funds otherwise you will pursue the recovery of the deposit through the small claims which could make him liable for additional costs should he lose the case.
After 14 days if no deposit start the process in the small claims court online moneyclaimonline.gov.uk I think is the website. Then when you do your claim make sure you claim expenses for time spent dealing with the matter.

Thank you so much for that, I thought he was being a bit off,my daughter would have willing borne half the cost as she saw that as being fair for his trouble. Maybe he should have agreed with her and saved himself some grief. Sadly he wouldn't even speak to her,sent a text message saying' tough' more or less and turned his phone off.
Once again, thank you very much for your trouble.

Just to add my agreement: take them to the Small Claims Court, who are very much on the side of the tenant, unless the claim they're making is a complete fabrication. I took a firm called Keylet in Cardiff to court last year who didn't return a penny of my £625 deposit voluntarily, and I ended up with it all back plus court costs, interest and travel expenses. Stick it to them!

Here is a copy of the letter, feel free to use it.


Subject: Impending court action regarding deposit dispute

Dear thieving gits,

Further to my previous letter dated 20th December 2007, I have received no response and can only assume that you have declined to accept my offer. After seeking legal advice I have been advised to make this final communication prior to initiating court action against you. Therefore, be advised that the relevant court forms have now been prepared and will be submitted to the county court fourteen days from the date of this letter unless I receive a cheque for £1250 before then.

I would like to remind you that tenants have rights as well as obligations. You, as a landlord have obligations in addition to your rights. This is also in relation to deposits. Deposit must not be regarded by landlords as an extra rent only to be returned reluctantly or used to actually improve the condition of the property.

Good practice requires that landlord keep deposits in a separate client account, provided client with written statement detailing exactly what the deposit covers and when the money will be returned. Could you please provide evidence that you have adhered to these standards?
Additionally, you should be aware, that the amount retained should only be equivalent to an amount needed to replace “like with like”. For example, if the carpet was a bit worn out at the start of the tenancy, the landlord cannot expect to retain the amount that would pay for brand new carpet.
I advise you to look on the ARLA web site, which has a very useful section regarding deposit releases and working out amounts for damages/compensation. E.g. you cannot have replacement value for anything even if it was brand new at start of tenancy, as this would be regarded as "betterment". You can only have a percentage value dependant on condition at start of tenancy (which you must prove using the inventory from the start of the tenancy) and expected life of the item.

I would also like to draw to your attention that you cannot withhold the deposit for general “wear and tear”. Landlords must redecorate the property from their own expenses and tenants are only held liable for damages, which create additional costs to the landlord. Deposits are not there to provide redecoration fund.
You should also allow tenants the opportunity of remedying any defect before charging for it, this was not given as an option, and you should in any event have prepared a dilapidation schedule. You should also have the relevant tradesman available to at least give a written quotation (not an estimate) or receipts for work carried out to enable you to readily account for deductions. Again these details have been lacking and you now have new tenants in the property.

Landlords must remember, as it is the tenant’s money, they have to account for it properly. It is a very common misconception, that the deposit belongs to the landlord- it is not so and withholding of it without proper validation is illegal. My understanding is that the onus is on you to prove that there were circumstances justifying the retention of the deposit, not on ourselves to prove that we are entitled to its return. Unfortunately, you have failed to provide any relevant evidence. On the other hand, we are in a position to demonstrate that it was unreasonable for you to keep our deposit.

Again, I would like to remind you that we expect your reply to arrive no later than within a fortnight of the postmark. If no reply is received, county action will be instigated. The court can order you to pay the deposit back and the proceedings are very straightforward. You may also be ordered to pay our court costs and expenses. I should also make it clear that if we are forced to take this matter to court we will withdraw our offer to allow you to retain £250 and will be seeking the return of our deposit in full, i.e. the return of the entire £1500 deposit.

We sincerely advise you to comply with our request. I am reliably informed that the courts are very sympathetic to tenants whose landlords do not follow good practice guidelines, including professional inventory clerks for inventories and check-outs, and do not fulfil statutory requirements regarding issues of deposits.

We are looking forward to hearing from you within 14 days.


I hope it helps!

Beware of the small claims court. I went to sue my landlord and got stung. Despite no inventory, no receipts and figures which were made up (as he admitted), I still lost about £200.

The CAB said I had a water tight case and should sue.

Now I just don't trust the system and will withold the last months rent every time in future.

That's what we always did in the old days, seemed to me at the time to be accepted practice (sort of). Having dealt recently with a bit of a chancer landlord I vote with possesion is nine tenths of the law and a problem for who doesn't have it.

I'm sure there are some very decent landlords out there, but once you've had a problem with a sheister it becomes difficult to give the benefit of the doubt.

Another update: I have been offered £1050 of my £1500 deposit, the remaining £450 has been accounted for by estimates for work to be done. Given that I was prepared to write-off about £300 because you always have to I am going to settle.

Even though £450 is excessive there is an element of risk when you go to the small claims court and to be honest the time, effort and uncertainty are worth something to me too. Loosing £450 is acceptable, though it is on the border. Settling will give us some piece of mind and allow us to move on.

Glad your able to move on, it would be the same for me. At least a good bite of the cherry is better than none.

Got a cheque from the landlord this morning for the full amount. Filled in the online claim form and had the money in about than a week. Settled before judgement. Very happy.

Many thanks to all on the forum, for all the advice. This is a great place. Wishing you all well. Eightiesgirly.