We have recently given notice that we will be vacating our rented property.
On Tuesday we received a letter from the Estate Agent with a long list of requirements for us to fulfill before we move out, most basically to the effect of "leave the place clean and tidy and as you found it".
The last item on the list states that the EA will be deducting a "Check out" charge of £36 from our deposit and the remainder will be returned to us once the place has been checked by an inventory clerk.
Are they allowed to do this? There was no mention of check out charges in the initial contract.
This did not happen the last time we rented a house.

This particular EA seems to levy £36 charges for all sorts of things. They charged us £36 each time we renewed the contract and we once received a letter from them stating that they would be charging tenants £36 if they were called out for any repairs deemed by them to be "unnecessary" or £36 if rent was paid any later than on the day it was due.
Thankfully we have never been charged for either of the last two since we always pay rent on time and our landlord prefers to do repairs himself so the EA does not get involved. In fact, the EA has done B*gg*r all since we moved in, other than send us one or two (usually annoying such as the above) letters each year.

Our landlord has been great, friendly, really helpful and has not increased our rent in 5 years! I know that he is definitely not responsible for this "charge".
And "£36" seems to be a trademark of the money-grabbing EA office.
What can I do about it?

It is a normal charge. I have paid it in every property I ever rented so after 12 agents I would say that makes it standard.

I have never been charged it on any of the nine homes I have rented, so I would say it is not standard.

Normal in my experience - current Lettings/EA charges £60 check-out at the end of the lease!

Here's a legal question. Who's responsible for the deposit? The landlord or the LA? If its the landlord then the agency have no right to deduct the money. And isn't a deposit for the house, not the LA's fees?

People can't deduct money without good reason. The landlord's already paying commission, so I suspect this is like bank charges - bull$hit that wouldn't stand up in court, but they do it because they know that nine times out of ten they'll get away with it.

Unless you were told about these at the beginning of the tenancy, they will have trouble claiming charges like this off you. Remember, your contract is with the landlord. You do not have a contract with the letting agent. To form a contract, one party has to make an offer and the other party has to accept that offer. Therefore, as long as you have not accepted this offer previously (and they may have sneakily done something to make you accept this offer) and you don't accept it now, then no contract is in place and no money is due. How about writing back to them and letting them know that their generous offer of checking you out is not necessary, and you will just leave the keys in an envelope on a table for the landlord to collect at his leisure.

Or, make them an offer to charge them £50 for you presence during their check out.

It's normal. We were charge £70+ VAT (and also £95+VAT for the inventory check to be carried out) at our last place.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
It seems that there are two camps on this - it appears that it is common practice for EAs to do this sort of thing, although at the same time the fact that there was no warning of it to start with makes a person question the legality of it.
Have any of you who have been faced with this charge ever questioned it?
My gut feeling tells me that it smacks of nothing less than a con.
It certainly makes me feel taken advantage of, since there is absolutely no benefit to us in this and this particular EA has done very little for us over the last few years.
Also, the deposit was handed over in good faith that if we looked after the property it would be returned to us in full without any sneaky deductions.
The amount they want to deduct is not huge but on principle I do not think that they have any right to it and so do not wish to pay it.
We were charged about £200 to move in and £36 each time we renewed our contract.
I assume they will be charging the new tenants, too and so will be making a lot of money for doing very little.
Who would I contact to find out whether I have a right to claim my full deposit? Trading standards, perhaps?
Edit: I have just had a look at the "know your rights" thread - it appears that the Citizens advice beaureau or "shelter" may be the people to ask. (????)

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources...consumer/oft356

Try looking at pages 31-35 of the above document. The whole thing is an interesting read, but is 127 pages long.

IIRC, It has to be stated on the AST that they will charge you for the check out, otherwise it might not be enforceable.

If there is a proper inventory that the LL paid for, it might be good form to just pay the checkout; that's the general practice.

Hi there,

When I've taken old LL's to the small claims court for deductions I have included the last inventory check if it has not been agreed. I've been successful so far with that. If any charges are taken off and I don't agree with them I use the small claims court.

There is a charge to use this service and I found the lead up to the first one frightening but the actuals courts have been informal and understanding.

The renewal charge was only imposed by my last EA and I refused to pay it as we had no agreement to do so. They then passed the cost onto the LL.

My local council (Westminster) has a division that helps withprivate tenant/landlord problems. They have been great and available on the phone.

Hope this helps.

I have checked the AST and there is no mention of a checkout charge.
Also, there was never an inventory drawn up or signed.
So if the charge is for checking the inventory, it is not valid!

As I mentioned before, I could not fault the landlord - he has been brilliant, and I would not want to cause any problems for him.
It is the Letting agent who wants to deduct the charge and also the letting agent that has done very little for us - the landlord managed the property himself and there is no inventory to be checked.

If it's not in the contract then don't pay it. It's probably a policy which came into effect during the last 5 years so they have probably charged you automatically instead of checking your contract.

I noticed a similar thing when I was looking to move. All the agents are charging fees for stupid things now, like a fee each time the tenancy is renewed. I never had to pay that either.

Currently, it seems that whatever the LA do - they will charge for it.

My experience - it's not in the Letting Agreement - which is between you and the LL but comes on the Agency's Tenants information and conditions of lettings sheet which they give you when you first walk in the their door - or they do these days.

Currently, I have 5 pages of this agreement between me and the agency - but I don't get to sign and agree it - as I would have expected to.

Perhaps this should be reviewed by some clever lawyer - as to whether this should be an agreement you should sign for otherwise it's unenforceable?

Mine also charges for returning your deposit!!!

And if by chance, things are not pukka when you move out they'll charge you by the hour for things not being right!!

This is the last time I will go through a Letting Agent - I will only in future deal with private landlords.

I signed up with LA purely for security but I've found it's made no difference - I've had to wait for months and months just to have a bath and have other horror stories with agents. I've had just as many problems with private LLs but not had to pay over the odds.

To ALL, If its not detailed in the tenancy agreement (the contract between you and the Landlord) tell them to go hang.

The beak will look at the contract in any dispute- if its not there, no claim.

So, the general conclusion appears to be that although it is common for the LA to levy such charges, it is actually not enforcable if not mentioned in the AST.
This tenancy started before the establishment of deposit holding schemes and the deposit is held by the LA.

If the agent does not wish to hear my protest and goes ahead and takes the money despite my protest, would it be the small claims court that I would take the matter to, or is there an easier way to deal with it?

Here's the real stinker in the matter. If they with hold money from your deposit, it is small claims court but you sue the landlord, not the agent for the return of the deposit. You can not sue the agent as you don't have a contract with them. It is really terrible if you have a good relationship with the landlord.

But don't LL and T have to agree on deductions? A check-out sans an inventory is an absolute absurdity... ludicrous! What is LA going to check out against? A copy of Pride and Prejudice?

I would cause a fuss about it, LL may just give the LA a spray... and not agree to the charge either, especially if no inventory. The LL must know about this.

As I'm in this situation - I'm going to post this on another site and see what response I get.

Will feed back.

Ask your LL to challenge it for you, just on principle. I'd reimburse one of my long-timers just for goodwill in this case.

Rented through 5 different letting agencies over a number of years - never encountered a "checkout charge" with any of these agencies - so in my experience this is not common at all.

I suspect you would have a signed a separate agency agreement that stipulated the agency fees (including check out costs). Agencies are unlikely to rely on your ignorance about what they're allowed to charge, but rather slip the pieces of paper for you to sign proclaiming them an insignificant formality.

Never in 5 years come across this 'checkout charge' looks like FAT EAs are starting to feel the noose tightening.

I wonder if this practice is legal ?

Its bad enough the upfront fees they charge for credit checks etc, about time this was standardized with a fixed rate introduced.

Believe me, this check out fee stuff is becoming normal.

I live in a small town - one started charging - and the rest have followed.

But what is interesting - I've just taken the keys today of the property I'm moving into - had to spend 1.5 hours with an "Inventory Clerk" - checking over a STUDIO flat that is old and worn - and really needs and overhaul - he missed major flaws - and I had to get him to point them out - and I mean major - rips in the bathroom ceiling which indicated that there had been a previous leak - huge rips and cracks in the living room where the windows were and signs of damn having been over painted.

Kitchen floor was filthy and had never been cleaned for years - but I bet the tenant was charged for that.

My new agency and all others now, charge by the hour for things not right by the tenant when they move out - wonder what the tenant had to pay for the floor in the kitchen being in such a disgusting state.

Got the "inventory clerk" to take pics - and will be insisting that they Agency clean it - if it something they have charged the tenant - no doubt if I left in the same state as found - I will have to pay £10.39 per hour for it to be cleaned.

If you've not met this yet - thank your lucky stars.

But it will be catching on - and what can you do - you need to move into a place - and you have no choice but go with this nasty form of money grabbing.

What upsets me most is that you move in and two months later get told the property is on the market with you in it - and you get the hassle of people being shown around with all of your financial stuff avaialble for someone to steal your identify.

Great - this is one part of legislation I've been taking up regularly with my MP - but so far - no reply to my 8 letters!!

Forgot - sorry is it legal?

Have checked with CAB and Landlordzone - and basically - yes, if included in your rental agreement - mine was - but if not, and you have not signed an agreement to the check-out fee with the letting agent direct - then "NO" - it is not legal and you can dispute it.

However, I have raised it as an issue as the Agreeement is supposed to be between me and the Landlord - and not me the Landlord and Letting Agent - that has sent my letting agency into a spin (but I've signed anyways) but have pointed out to them that they may be carrying out illegal practices - by using the LL agreement to profit themselves - they agreed to consult their solicitors on this as they didn't know the answer.

I've gone back to CAB and Shelter on this since it seems a grey area at the moment. Traditionally, the agreement you sign is always with the LL and you facilitated by the LA - not that the LA uses the LL to get monies out of you that may not be passed on.

Loop hole - perhaps?