The video below rasied some good questions about the validity of claims that CO2 is causing global warming.
I don't doubt that we need to start living more in balance with our resources, but a part of me has to ask the question:

With oil being a finite resource, that is apparently going to dwindle over the next 50-100 years, are the energy barons going to be positioning themselves to be the dominant players in renewable energy? And to what extent will the taxpayer be subsidising them? It seems strange that with all that's going on in our economy, that CO2 emissions and climate change is becoming such a severe problem.

Watch the vid below and see what you think.


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...ial+engineering

When George Bush starts talking about climate change i get suspicous.

I can remember in the 80's there used to be a lot of talk about Nuclear power stations being very bad for the environment. Now because of global warming, all of a sudden they are the good guys.....

F

Global warming has F all to do with our CO2 output. Period!

In fact CO2 output has fk all to do with the environment.

Govts attempts to get people to 'reduce carbon emissions or 'lower your carbon footprint' or any of this nonsense is just political code for using less fuel.

Remember - use less power, switch off the lights insulate your houses etc....unless they are wind powered in which case its ok.

The real message is "WE ARE HITTING PEAK OIL AND WE HAVE FAILED TO SECURE SUPPLIES FROM OUR ADVENTURES IN IRAQ. NOW USE LESS OIL GENERATED ENERGY OR IT'LL BE A FKN DISASTER."

If you dont know this then your head is in the sand.

Yep I agree 100% with you, also it would do wonders for inflation too!!

Most of the planets in the solar system are 'heating up' - it's to do with the solar cycles - not CO2 emissions

Gov is hijacking it to raise taxes and business is hijacking it to shift new products/services...

Are they......got a link please??

I assume what you mean to say was 'CO2 has fk all to do with global warming'.

Even if it is code for using less fuel, is this a bad thing? Fuel is abused by the richest nations, just like money.

Regardless of the reasoning behind it, I think most people would agree that wasting energy where it is not needed is financially silly from an individual point of view, as well as from the point of view of living in balance with your resources. Who said it was ok if they are wind powered to be wasteful?

You say that we didn't secure the oil in iraq? How could the us/uk have gained any more power than they have now if they wanted more security over the oil? I would have called planting a US/UK friendly Iraqi prime minister pretty good security, what were you expecting? Iraq to become another American state maybe?

"If you don't know this then your head is in the sand?"

If you had studied any scientific subject to any significant level you would most certainly know that no scientific area of study is black and white, and the more we learn the more the cause/effect perspectice can change. This is true of all scientific areas, whether this be Ecology, or the immune system. How one piece of data gets interpreted can have a dramatic consequence on how the rest of the data gets interpreted in relation to it. Maybe the scientists in the video weren't the best in their fields? maybe they're close to the top, but maybe there are many more with a better undestanding? I have my doubts and cynicism, but I am not so arrogant and opinionated as to judge anyone who is not aware of a particular perspective.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/28/090/30666

errr.......that doesn't say the sun is warming up......in fact it says the complete opposite.

Well I haven't had time to watch the video, but I went to "thefriendsofscience.org"website the group who made it. On the front page there is a graph depicting solar output vs global temperature, although they've left out the last 20years of data, even though that data is easily available.

Of course the last 20years of data shows solar output relatively flat whilst global temps and CO2 levels increasing.......So my guess is the video is full of horseshit too!!!

Can't remember where I first heard about it but had a quick look on Google...

The Whole Solar System is Undergoing Global Warming.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread221608/pg1

SUV's On Jupiter?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/novem...6suvjupiter.htm


This is quite interesting as well...

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/ngreen211.xml

Hmmm some green loonies send death threats to people they don't like....so what, jail the green loonies.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pres...yths/index.html

the 3rd graphic down gives solar radiation recieved on earth, the recent warming is not due to solar radiation changes

Sorry, that was my point. There is no evidence of an increase in temperatures due to solar activity. This is a good site infact for those who come up with the usual "Conspircay theory", "ways to increase taxes"; "natural cycle" arguments.

Personally, i give more creedence to the International Panel on Climate Change (who met in Paris last month) than those deniers on this site. But may be the hundreds of renowned scientists are wrong after alll

indeed....www.realclimate.org is tops as well

AGW has now become orthodox, the sceptics realise they have lost the scientific battle, and hence to a large extent the political battle as well, but they are trying to confuse the general public in an attempt to delay amelioration measures.

Not sure the political battle has been won - far from it. I don't see any real measures being taken in the major economies yet. I am a pessimist and believe that the only thing that will cause real action to be taken is Peak Oil and the increasing expense of energy.

Sorry what I mean by political battle is that the politicians privately acknowledge AGW, they just haven't got the mandate to do what needs doing, after all if a government goes a bit wibbly over some fuel tax protests the changes of actually getting a government to actually seriously address carbon emissions is almost nil.....


Not in my term of Office "NIMTOS"

I'm pretty sure pretty much anyone who can think for themselves and don't act as sheep, who follow the tabloids blindly to the slaughter, know that global warming is not man made.

Global warming is clearly reflected by the activity of the sun. When solar activity increases and there are more sun spots then the Earth gets hotter. If not, it gets cooler. Simple as. Chart the evidence and you will see during the industrialisation period that the temperatures were not getting warmer, but cooler. It was only more recently have we begun to see global warming.

The thing about CO2 as well, the relationship is reversed. Whenever the temperatures are warmer then they will be more CO2. This is because of the amount of animals and plants and the size of the oceans, which emit much more CO2 when the climate is hotter. This is a lesson for those who see statistics and assume causality.

On top of that think of the more extreme consequences of blaming man for global warming. Sub Saharan Africans have the lowest life expectancies and live in the most awful conditions. Forget about burning coal and polluting cars being bad for your health, these people have to burn wood and breathe in the toxic smoke because they don't have access to electricity. Wise up developed world. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. Stop hindering the growth of developing countries with your rhetoric! Shame on you!

However one thing I would add to this debate is that emissions do still need to be cut. Not because CO2 causes global warming, because I firmly don't believe this to be so, but because of other toxic pollutants. Sulphuric Acid, Nitrous Oxides, and so on will cause damage.

Sources for your statements ? Because the sources i checked showed no increase in solar activity (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/28/090/30666)

I am sorry but I tend to believe 100s of qualified scientists in the matter who said it's 90% likely it's caused by man made activity. As for burning wood being more toxic than emissions from various fossil fuels or nuclear ....

Huh? - there are a number on this thread - here are some more...

Global Warming on Mars -- and Jupiter, Pluto, Neptune
http://www.dailytech.com/Global+Warming+on...article6544.htm


Global Warming Detected On Mars
http://www.dailytech.com/Global+Warming+De...article6331.htm


Bad News for Global Warming Alarmists
http://www.dailytech.com/Bad+News+for+Glob...article5914.htm


You are simply being conned with this as with so many other things - you are being convinced into reducing your consumption of - or dependance on - fossil fuels ie oil

check out these government approved stats

who do you believe?

So how do you "know" that solar radiation is causing global warming then if you reject science...

The solar argument is actually quite a good one.

Think about it,CFC's were blamed for the increasing hole in the ozone layer...now these CFC's should be reaching the atmosphere and doing damage where the weather systems are most active( along the tropics+/- a few degrees lat.)

But the holes are directly overhead the magnetic poles.Which could indicate a link between a shifting/strengthening magnetic field and the breakdown of O3 molecules at atomic level.

the increase in magnetic activity could also increase the heat generated in the earths core and magma....which gets circulated by convection.

The earths tectonic plates are shifted around by the faster convection of magma...leading to increases in seismic activity(earthquakes,tsunamis and so on)....ring any bells?

also,the excess heat will be spewed out of hydrothermal vents in the ocean(el nino?????...or OH,NO,THE NORTH ATLANTIC CONVEYOR!!)

Just be patient, in about 20 years time or so there will be less solar activity, the global warming rubbish will die out and people will be desperate to stick more CO2 into the atmosphere.

I don't usually use wikipedia but what the heck, here's an interesting article about the 'global cooling' scaremongers back in the 70s. That's right, GLOBAL COOLING, widespread media scaremongering about the Earth cooling down! Oh how short the human memory really is!!!

hmm a telepgraph reader?






its orders of magnitude more important than any natural effects.

remember, humanity is 150 times more potent than volcanism in CO2 output.

also remember that CO2 mixed with water vapour is a potent greenhouse gas combination.

some strange attitudes persist here.

lord give me strength



the debate on global warming always and only concentrates on IF the world is heating up, nothing else.
are we really this stupid to fall for the same money grabbing tricks



why don’t we ever discuss if the temperature we are at now is the optimal temperature for us?
why don’t we ever discuss the cost of tackling global warming?
why don’t we ever discuss if it is actually stoppable in the first place?
why don’t we discuss that a slightly hotter world does not = more hurricanes or earth quakes or all that ******** al-goes film shows.
why do we set ourselves targets to cut emissions by 10%, surely if co2 is the cause then we need to cut it down by 100% so no oil use! Hypocrites.
why don’t we discuss animals humans rare causing roughly 9% of the co2 so we would all need to go vegan!


dont over simplify the problem into “is the world heating up”


those questions are never discussed because they are 100% against global warming and show it to be a farce.

Hilarious post. You really think that the tabloids have been honest and gone with global warming, particularly in the USA? They have been opposed for years to Global Warming, and only now are getting used to it because they have no alternative now the Climate Panel have delivered consectutive reports saying it is the way it is.

Ha, the idiot who wrote those pieces has been reading one point of view, from Henrik Svensmark and Nigel Calder, who wrote a joke book called "The Chilling Stars, A New Theory of Climate Change."

Scientists on www.realclimate.com quite rightly treat these guys as a joke, but I'm sure you would give good credence to them and their theories.

let us not forget that a lot of scientists and their institutions are chasing massive government grants (indeed climate change only became an issue when Thatcher 'commissioned' reports on it when closing down mines), so they tend to conform to their masters desire