It is detailed in a report that in the next 20 years 1 in three households will be immigrants. Thats a third of the UK's entire property stock over just two decades. Now that has to have a marked affect on property rescources and will ensure that a houseprice crash is a thing of the past. Its just a shame that many FTB'er will have to compete with the new arrivals who have shown a much better ability at adapting to the situation of high property prices.

A former Home Office minister has called for an independent body to be set up to monitor UK immigration.
Barbara Roche said an organisation should monitor and publish figures and be independent of government.

She said this would counter "so-called independent" groups like Migration Watch, which she described as an anti-immigration body posing as independent.

Migration Watch says it is not against all immigration and the government already publishes accurate figures.

Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the organisation, says there is no need for an independent body because Office of National Statistics data are accurate.

He says he opposes large-scale immigration "both on the grounds of overcrowding and culture".

Migration Watch comes into this debate from an anti-immigration point of view

Barbara Roche
Labour MP
He said: "For example, over the next 20 years one household in three will be due to immigration.

"We are already more overcrowded than India and we are four times more overcrowded than France."

Ms Roche, Labour MP for Hornsey and Wood Green, believes legal migration is something we should welcome.

She said her proposals mean "we wouldn't have so-called independent experts, like Migration Watch, who come into this debate from an anti-immigration point of view."

She went on: "What I would like to see is there being a body which actually looked at the figures, published them, and was independent of government.

"I think that would go a long way to allaying some of the fears that are sometimes whipped up during this debate."

According to government statistics UK population will increase by about 10% to 65 million over the next 25 years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/population/Story...,594319,00.html

The present net population growth rate is about 0.4% per year.

Although such an increase could have some small effect on housing in the long run I can't myself believe that this will have any effect on the coming house price crash.

Immigrants coming to UK have no money to buy anything …especially a house …and 50% of their earnings they will send back to their families to support them.

You are wasting your time dreaming about houses going up. They are going down.

Have you been to London recently?.

Or are you David Blunkett?.

No I am not D.B.
Russian mafia yes. They have money… a lot of money.
Young educated kids from Poland looking for new life, opportunities and money to help their families back in Poland, they will “not” spend any money on over inflated UK house prices.
They will rather buy a house in their own country. If we can do it, they can do it even cheaper.
They might settle in uk, but they are going to send their hard earning cash overseas.

It will take years for them to save for any deposit to buy a house here.

Sounds ******** to me.Let's see it then.

Seems to me that 1 in 3 people are already illegal immigrants. Let's hope the mortgage people understand their dialect, because I haven't got a ****ing clue what language half of them are mumbling on in. Time to leave the country when 1 in 3 people aren't paying tax and can't speak English. Australia has the best idea - no tolerance.

You make me laugh Xurbia. You are talking about emigrating to Australia in the same breath as opposing immigration here. Both cannot be correct, can they?. Also about non-tolerance of Australia, this is the news item from Migration news, Australia: Non-tolerant!
Quoting:
For the first time since the Howard Government came to power, migrants from Britain and Ireland have outstripped those from Southeast Asia.
Settlers from English-speaking nations accounted for almost half the 111,000 new migrants in Australia last year, compared with just 37 per cent when the Howard Government took office in March 1996. New Immigration Department figures reveal an extraordinary increase in the total number of migrants from Britain and Ireland settling in Australia in the past two years, with the numbers jumping from 8749 in 2001-02 to 18,272 in 2003-04. This compared with 16,799 migrants arriving last year from Southeast Asian nations, including Vietnam, The Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Funnily enough the two do go hand in hand! Why would any erudite middle-class tax-payer want to support a sinking ship of illiterate illegal immigrants? At least I will add value to the Auz economy if I decide to go there. Why do you think so many people are leaving this country along with all the equity from their houses?

It seems to me that our government are hell bent on ensuring England becomes the most densley populated and congested country on the planet. Absolute madness.

The UK is barely in the top 50 most densely populated countries in the world, with our pop. density of 244.69 persons/sq.km paling into insignificance beside Macau's 20,824.38 persons/sq km.

http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/po..._density_2.html

ENGLAND NOT THE UK. THERE IS A DIFFERANCE

Visiting London is like going abroad to an alien land. I was really shocked at the change in the city since I last visited it in 1983. I believe that our self-serving politicians must have a very coloured perspective of what the larger bulk of England is like by working in that city. I for one have no wish to live in an England that they are attempting to engineer. This smug, comfortable and fattening government must be flung out at the general election or we will regret it at our leisure. These oxbridge educated career politicians seem to hold the bulk of the English population in the utmost contempt. Make them pay.

The reasons behind their thinking are simple. I lived in Oz during 1998-2000 and there was much fuss about Pauline Hanson. She was labelled a racist as she exposed the failures of the Australian Immigration Service that had at that time positively discriminated against the British.

Several reports were published that clearly showed that the average immigrant other than British Citizens were costing the Australian Taxpayer $100,000 dollars for the first three years and then reducing. It was also identified that those of middle eastern origin had massive unemployment rates particularly those from the Lebanon. The Australians then questioned the validity of the entrance procedure and found that the so called skill in demand entrance system was easily abused. Many newcomers spoke no English whatsoever and did not possess the skills on their applications.

As a result of this the whole service of DIMA was tightened up and the points system strictly enforced. Take a look at the points system and now it can be seen that the points are stacked in favour of those who speak english mother toungue and have key skills. This has quite rightly excluded those that have come to sponge off the Australian Taxpayer.

The Australian System is the fairest system in the world and they go to great lenghts to accomadate true assylum seekers and eliminate illegal economic migrants who are not wanted.

In Australia a job can only be given to an Immigrant if that job cannot be done by an Australian. The job must be advertised and it must be shown that the job was offered on a local and national level first. It is illegal to import cheap labour to oust Australian Jobs.

Australia is a true multicultural society and is not riddled with namby pambys constantly holding up the race card. Everyone is given a fair go, and those that integrate are welcomed into the community. Those that come to stir up trouble find themselves in a detention centre and are quickly exported to their homeland without leave to appeal.

Australia is a truly fair example of how people can live together however it has not been acheived by using ridiculous laws such as Incitement to Racial Hatred. It has been acheived by the people for the people.

Supply and demand pre 2004 (offical figures).





Most projections for 2005 are above 250,000.

I suppose you think thats a good thing then zzg ??

.... and from previous postings on here, I think you also wants lots more people to come to these shores of ours - am I right ??

Personally speaking, and I am allowed an opinion aren't I zzg ? - it stinks, the place is going to descend even further into the overpopulated cesspit it already is.

I reckon if you ask the 50 other countires, they would prefer somewhere a lot less crowded to live.

The problem the world is going to increasingly face is over population, destruction of the planets resources, and an increasingly frustrating way of life for people as they find themselves more and more constrained of how they can live their lives.

Back to you zzg, cos I know you can't resist from having the last word .......

Laurejohn

You are correct and I totally agree with you. The immigration policy should not be blind led by blind for the blinds.Recently I was walking a street in London- majority of shops there have 99% non-British employees . Recently I was in one of the embassies of one of these countries for a visa. Most of the people I saw there could not speak English- asking others for help in reading application forms etc. And they are part of English culture!!!! Immigration for the purpose of providing servants(so called "nannies") and domestics ,manual labourers, shopkeeper`s assistants etc is not correct- they should not be given a visa at all. However, it is so easy to get work permit for these people. I have two friends who got so called home helps( we talk about them as "servants" though) brought from India and Africa respectively , only for this job. I was surprised how easily they could get visa for them.However, it is wrong to say all immigration is wrong, because we need many scientists and enterpreneurs. One should appreciate genuine immigrants and not blame them all.

London has always been more cosmopolitan than the regions.




So? And how can you tell they weren't British? Because they weren't white?





Most embassies employ people from that country-so Indian embassy has Indian staff, Thai embassy Thai staff, etc. There is nothing unusual in this.




Define "English" culture. Would that be the lager louts? Or the clubbers in Ayia Napa? Or the toff on his shoots on his country estate? There is no such thing as "English" culture.





Why? None of the natives will do it, and the job has to be done by someone, so if not immigrants, who else?





Why aren't we producing our own? Why steal them from other countries where they are TRULY needed to advance their own nations?

[QUOTE]how can you tell they weren't British?


I assumed this. It is obvious if you talk to someone- or are you not so?

[QUOTE]Most embassies employ people from that country-so Indian embassy has Indian staff, Thai embassy Thai staff, etc. There is nothing unusual in this.

Not talking about their staff. It was about people who had been to their own embassy for various necessities- they must be living in UK-did not come to London for their passport needs from their own country.

[QUOTE]Define "English" cultureThere is no such thing as "English" culture

Wrong- some one(probably me) once said- one who speaks English and hates Germans can be called English. It is a mixture of cultures, but all working towards the betterment of England. Not going behind terrorism.

[QUOTE]Why aren't we producing our own

Because of the unthinking politicians

The UK is barely in the top 50? So it is actually in then? Expect us to move up the league.

The South East is very densely populated. Thet fact that there are other countries in the world where people are even more crammed in like sardines doesn't alter the fact that as our population density rises our quality of life and environment decline.

Oh really.




NEWSFLASH! There are immigrants living in this country who can't speak English! What amazing news are you going to tell us next, that the sky is blue?




So the Jews are English then?

Your definition of English is alternately risible or repugnant, if you meant it in earnest. NEWSFLASH, the war is over!

It doesn't matter what colour or race people belong to - the problem is we now lack proper border control and allowing too many unskilled people into the country. We owe this failure to people like Blunkett and New Labour.

As for the English hating the Germans! We could learn quite a bit from the Germans. I for one like the Germans - ever driven a nice Merc or Audi? You need a proper education and apprenticeship to achieve excellence. German engineering is mouthwatering!

Trouble is people coming here don't want to be British. They want 'rights' to do what they did back home. Ironic given they are 'seeking asylum' from the same regimes they revere so much!!! We can't even enjoy a British Xmas without shaven head social worker type ******r telling us off.

What report? Please provide link or scource.

I can only assume this report is fictitious if you fail to do so.

A friend of mine came to the uk from slovakia in may to cash in our riches. He has decided that he is better off back home and is leaving in february. How the grass is green on the other side.

Speak to your local Kurdish kebab man, he is a slave in this country and he will be going back home when he saves enough money!!!

Immigration is tighter today than it has ever been, we only notice it today because people have different colour skin or dress different.

Everyone I know has a polish/irish/italian/french/german/swedish grandparent!!!

A relative was recently in a NHS hospital nowhere near lovely, cosmopolitan London. My relative has private medical insurance and has been in a nearby private hospital a few times recently.

On the ward on the NHS hospital I think it is fair to say there were no two members of staff with the same nationality. Many of them, including senior nursing staff, had very poor English.

Surprisingly, most of them knew my relative. Because they all did shifts in the private hospital as well as the NHS hospital.

These poor sods are earning bugger all an hour and having to do to two (at least two) jobs to keep their heads above water.

And some fool on here thinks they are going to be the force that continues to drive the housing market up!

Doubtful obviously spoke to all of them.. (or a set of truly representative samples)



Because UK elitism does not value the sciences.. This is not due to our "current" politicians but rather endemic in the UK geist.



The SE is overpopulated due to the concentration of economic activity in the region.. (I.e. the CIty)... Germany (as an example) spreads the wealth and industry (regionally and demographically)... i.e. banking in Frankfurt, high-tec in Munich, manufacturing in Stuttgart, Munich (among others), fashion - Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Media - Hamburg... etc etc.. The UK? The vast majority of blue-chip careers center on London inc. Law, Marketing, IT, Finance/Banking. All controlled by a self serving bunch of back slapping cronies who feel they need to be close in terms of proximity (and ideals), and damn the effects of this on society at large.

Germany is in a similar position in the population density chart as the UK(link from above) but does not have a single metropolitan area which suffers from the same "over-crowding" as London (and the ~SE)

The people to blame are not the immigrants and not the "current" politicians but rather the elitist system to whom the vast majority of UK citizens give (and have given) their tacit support



Ballacks m'lud..

1. see last point above..

2. The Netherlands also does not suffer from the problems evident in the SE and they are far higher up the chart than the UK. THE STANDARD OF LIVING IN THE NETHERLANDS (and most of the continent() IS HIGHER THAN IT IS IN THE UK..

Try and understand it is a problem of distribution of people (and wealth) low standards (by everybody), presentation above substance [see. blunkett, iraq, oxbridge, the city.. blah blah]) and self-serving policies (by you know who)..

It would be possible to increase the population density of the UK while simultaneously improving living standards if we followed some of the (common sense) policies on the continent. (Or in simple terms - stop cramming ourselves into one corner of a room while complaining about a lack of space!)

There was an article in a recent Sunday Telegraph (as far as I can remember) - the Middle Classes are leaving the Netherlands in droves - faster than immigrants are arriving - because mass immigration there over the last 15 years is turning what were once nice, civilized places into no-go ghettoes.

Nice.. They are leaving.. And..? Check any international standard of living ranking - the Netherlands ranks higher than the UK.. (Im not going to do it for you ). NOWHERE THERE IS AS BAD AS LONDON..

I go to the netherlands all the time - two good friends of mine live there.. (I stay in Germany a lot - so it is only 2 hours by car [via unrestricted autobahn]). I visit Antwerp, Den Haag, Amsterdam (3 times in Nov 2004), Rotterdam and others.. Yes they have their problems - but nothing like those (wrt this topic) in the UK

[quote=laurejon,Dec 26 2004, 01:15 AM]
Have you been to London recently?.

[/quote]

The argument that immigrants are causing house prices to rise seems a little dubious to me - especially as house prices have actually started falling as numbers of immigrants are apparently rising - surely a contradication.

[quote=Xurbia,Dec 26 2004, 01:48 PM]
Seems to me that 1 in 3 people are already illegal immigrants. Let's hope the mortgage people understand their dialect, because I haven't got a ****ing clue what language half of them are mumbling on in. Time to leave the country when 1 in 3 people aren't paying tax and can't speak English. Australia has the best idea - no tolerance.

[/quote]

Do you personally know this "1 in 3" of the population that are illegal immigrants? Supposing you do, have they all told you that they are illegal immigrants, or do you just 'know' this somehow?

[quote=Doubtful,Dec 27 2004, 01:17 PM]
Recently I was walking a street in London- majority of shops there have 99% non-British employees . However, it is wrong to say all immigration is wrong, because we need many scientists and enterpreneurs. One should appreciate genuine immigrants and not blame them all.

[/quote]

[quote=Doubtful,Dec 27 2004, 01:48 PM]
[QUOTE]how can you tell they weren't British?
I assumed this. It is obvious if you talk to someone- or are you not so?

[/quote]

So 'Doubtful', you spoke to 99% of all the employees in the majority of shops on the street you walked along?

You then go on to say "One should appreciate genuine immigrants and not blame them all." - Yes, I absolutely agree, but your opinion sounds totally fake after you made such a general statement about "non-British" employees just moments before.

I find it a bit annoying when people just make up facts from their own made up anecdotal evidence.

Don't get me wrong. I know this country is a much bigger dump than the Netherlands.

Don't you have a graph for homosexuals, Jews and Irish aswell, this is just b****cks and you know it. House prices are high because vested interest are running the media machine coupled with cheap borrowing.

Next you'll be suggesting getting a posse together armed with tools and head down to London, I know what, why don't we brick up the Channel tunnel while we're at it.

In reply the 'seems to me' is a subjective by definition. It refers to Laurejon's original posting. So you are right - it's anecdotal; same as subjective!

BUT - you're just as guilty of misrepresention - you've altered the context to suit yourself.

Talking of not liking anecdotal evidence - aren't you posting on the wrong website. We're talking about house prices after all, where 82.456% of all statistics are incorrect!

Happy New Year

What are you ranting on about - those are offical figures not make believe.

If supply is low and demand is high; then prices go up.

Yes - The UK has the worlds highest levels of immigration. Not the vastness of a continent of America, China or Oz.

Population is growing at a by net migration.

There are no limits on immigration in the UK! Why should there be?

As demand for your xenophobic/paranoid musings is low, and their value nil, will you stop supplying them?

No.
These are not musing they are OFFICAL FIGURES directly affecting the housing market.

Yeah - In your world population increases do not matter, anyone who points them out is a racist/xenophone/nutter etc..etc... whatever....

Anyway, back in the real world, a world where the UK has the highest immigrationof any country in the world, the economic effects of this increase in migration are twofold.

(i) The supply of skills is increased, meaning that wages cannot be raised for skills shortages leading to inflation in costs.
(ii) Interest rates can be held lower due to lower inflation in services. In fact record
low inflation has been achieved.

i.e. Houseprices rise, wages don't.

Translation please? If you're going to slag off immigration, at least do it in English

The number of people entering the country each year is far greater than the number of homes being built, so what do you think that does for housing demand, and hence prices?

The immigration policy in the UK is completely ******* up the country - the vast majority of immigrants are technically illegal because theyve travelled through safe countries to get here and not applied for asylum there because its well known the UK is a soft touch, and once they get here its extremely hard to get deported as theyre protected by human rights laws, have access to free legal aid (at our expense) to fight their case etc etc.

And I think its correct to say that immigration will take up the slack to an extent - some may say how when they have no/little money, but its tax payers who are paying for their accomodation if they arent - either way they need a house to live in.

Rubbish. No one ever told you off for celebrating Xmas any way you chose to. This reminds me of all the lies the Daily Mail used to print in the '80s about how schools banned Baa Baa black sheep - gave all their readers something to be outraged about, but was a pack of lies. Tellus exactly who told you off for your choice of Xmas celebration, or withdraw the stupid remark.

Wuluf, who says quality of life is higher in the Netherlands? Is this all based on some statistic about wealth?

Environmental and social issues such as traffic congestion and quality housing etc etc have a large bearing on quality of life too.

What would you expect the quality of life to be like in the UK when most of it is as densely populated as London? Will happen one day if our rapid population growth contiinues.

I apologise if you're a social worker. Can you tell us how you proved the Baa Baa black sheep was a pack of lies? Please could you print their name and address so we can verify this directly or perhaps you could retract your stupid remark?

Best you get back to shaving your head whilst I wipe my ar*e on a copy of your paper, the Guardian.

I don't take the Guardian. I'm a Chartered Engineer not a social worker although you're more of a bigot than I thought if you also stereotype social workers. I've gone naturally bald rather than shaved my head - you're more likely to have done that, it goes well with your BNP views.

I know the person chiefly accused of these stories in the 80's, Bernie Grant. Papers used to blatantly mis quote him all the time. Now back to you, name the social worker who won't allow you to celebrate Xmas.

Because they don't like to see people dying in a sinking ship?

Do not accuse me of having BNP views. I have posted nothing racist here and I do not hold racist view. Exactly what has illegal immigration got to do with racism? Nothing. LEGAL immigrants are just as fed up with the situation. Are they racist too? I'm not baldist either but I'll make an exception for you.

For a chartered engineer you make a good social worker.

It is people like yourself with pseudo-pc views which have made this country weak and a magnet for parasites.

Perhaps if we get a big enough ship we can import 4 billion illegal immigrants.

Get back to your tamborine and your 2CV.

England is a sinking ship. Jonny English had right idea: get all the filth living here and turn it into one big concentration camp. And all the decent Brits emmigrate.

The main point here is that there is not enough housing to meet the current population demands. There is already internal pressure to meet the needs of an extended life span, an increasing divorce rate and two property owners. Lets not also forget that there is a large population crammed into crap accommodation who have the income and desire to buy a better way of living if only they had access to affordable houses.

Meanwhile more people are allowed to pour unto the country. It should go with out saying that this will have an effect on property prices. Don’t forget that if an immigrant cant afford to buy a property then there will be an idle middle classed property tycoon who will (for profit), and what do they do with this profit, hire cheap labour from abroad to look after their children and gardens. In the mean time the first immigrant is replaced my another for even cheaper wages so they have to go on welfare. The result is that we end up paying more money for properties and more money in taxes to fund the idle property tycoons buy to let mortgage on the property that houses the immigrant. Why don’t we just cut out the middle man and give a percentage of our wages to the idle property tycoon, cut their lawn and offer them free baby sitting.

More houses. Less immigrants and more taxes on idle property tycoons. Build the wealth of this country and use the extra cash to help the welfare of the countries that the immigrants come from.

Oh dear!

This country needs skilled immigration i.e. our choice, meeting our demands.

Trouble is when we make such opinions the racism card comes out. We cannot even support our own pensioners properly let alone house unskilled, non-English speaking opportunists. Destroying passports and lying to immigration officials is par for the course. It's a shame because the true sylum seeker who really need sanctuary would be happy to go anywhere; not just Treasure Island.

Tolerance has been replaced by stupidity.